Banana OK with Pergolide Capsule?
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lauramollrich
P has decided he doesn't want to take his bright orange Pergolide capsule anymore. Someone had a banana in the refrigerator. I broke off a small piece and stuck the pill down inside. He ate it!!! Bananas have sugar so I need to know if this is ok? He is in full-time dressage work and is showing. bty, he is the 2014 First Level California Dressage Society Champion San Juan Capistrano Chapter. We are so proud of him. :) Thanks to everyone in the group for your help in keeping him sound and healthy! Laura M in CA 1/2012 (I don't want to leave my address or I'm afraid my post will get lost in space) |
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Kerry Isherwood
Hi Laura, i cant answer abt the banana question but wanted to ask about pergolide & showing: do you take him off of it before shows in case you are tested, or was he disgnosed after show season? (Without a history link i havent seen your CH & im a new member so im unfamiliar with your horse's timeline). One of the vets i use says she takes her clients' horses off for rated shows but she doesnt like doing it bc it wreaks havoc on their systems (she has several A-circuit hunters whose owners "have" to show). Specifically I ask bc I show rated eventing and hope to continue; but at present Im waiting for Dr Kellon to review my mare's bloodwork/CH to LMK if she's a candidate for a pergolide trial (hint hint, DrK ;). My mare has severe hyperinsulinemia that is no longer responding to diet & exercise, so if we make it to 2015 w/o foundering Im hoping to do some jumper shows (and possibly horse trials again, but feeding for energy while keeping her insulin regulated was very difficult this year). Anyway, a couple people I ran into this year w/early Cush horses said they continue to show on pergolide and just hope they dont get drug tested, but Im not sure I want to go that route (!)
Kerry in NY Sept 2014 |
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Kendra
Kerry, Use this form for any veterinary prescribed medications for the horse. I spent a great deal of time speaking with USEF last year concerning this. Kendra and Opie Washington 6/13 On Saturday, October 11, 2014 6:27 AM, "kerry.isherwood@... [EquineCushings]" wrote: Hi Laura, i cant answer abt the banana question but wanted to ask about pergolide & showing: do you take him off of it before shows in case you are tested, or was he disgnosed after show season? (Without a history link i havent seen your CH & im a new member so im unfamiliar with your horse's timeline). One of the vets i use says she takes her clients' horses off for rated shows but she doesnt like doing it bc it wreaks havoc on their systems (she has several A-circuit hunters whose owners "have" to show). Specifically I ask bc I show rated eventing and hope to continue; but at present Im waiting for Dr Kellon to review my mare's bloodwork/CH to LMK if she's a candidate for a pergolide trial (hint hint, DrK ;). My mare has severe hyperinsulinemia that is no longer responding to diet & exercise, so if we make it to 2015 w/o foundering Im hoping to do some jumper shows (and possibly horse trials again, but feeding for energy while
keeping her insulin regulated was very difficult this year). Anyway, a couple people I ran into this year w/early Cush horses said they continue to show on pergolide and just hope they dont get drug tested, but Im not sure I want to go that route (!)
Kerry in NY Sept 2014 |
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Kerry Isherwood
Hi Kendra, in your experience, can you file w USEF for pergolide? My vet had told me no, that's its a banned substance. When i spoke to USEF last year about levothyroxine, they said that unless im showing FEI (um...was definitely not) that i dont even need to file the form. But thats only Thyro-L and was last year. I guess I should just call USEF and find out once & for all what the deal is....
Kerry in NY Sept 2014 |
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Kendra
Kerry, when I spoke with them I was informed any medication that the horse required should have this form filled out. This allows the verification of the drugs that the horse may test positive for as needed due to a specific health condition. The difference they look for is the use of a medication due to a medical need vs giving the horse a competitive edge. It saves the huge headache of an appeal at a later date should the horse test positive on medically required but not claimed medications. Kendra and Opie Washington 6/13
On Saturday, October 11, 2014 8:46 AM, "kerry.isherwood@... [EquineCushings]" wrote: Hi Kendra, in your experience, can you file w USEF for pergolide? My vet had told me no, that's its a banned substance. When i spoke to USEF last year about levothyroxine, they said that unless im showing FEI (um...was definitely not) that i dont even need to file the form. But thats only Thyro-L and was last year. I guess I should just call USEF and find out once & for all what the deal is....
Kerry in NY Sept 2014 |
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Susan Davis
Asked the question re Pergolide directly to USEF Myself. Call them re rules if you need to.
Answer was that you must not dose in the 24 hours before showing your class. You must file a medication report with the show office and give to the technical delegate. That is acceptable. Sue D / North Carolina June 2014 Sent from my iPad |
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Kerry Isherwood
Sue, thanks for the very helpful response. Withdrawing meds for only one day would have to be much less taxing on a horse than being on & off its pergolide for weeks at a time like the show ponies my vet is referring to. Ethically I couldnt take the chance of keeping on meds & just hoping i dont get drug tested.
Thanks again, very helpful info! Kerry in NY Sept 2014 |
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Hi Laura
One small banana (28 grams, 6 inches) has 3 grms of sugar per nutritiondata.com. If you are giving him say <1 inch piece, or 0.05 grms of sugar, you are probably okay. Congrats on the titles! Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
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fionn@...
On Oct 10, 2014, at 5:35 PM, lauramollrich@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
That is so awesome! Congratulations!!!!!! Fionn is back to doing dressage work consistently now but we haven’t gotten to the point where we can show. I think it is me, not him. :) But what you’ve done is a HUGE amount of work and definitely to be commended! Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn Lexington, Kentucky USA Joined June 2012 fionn@... Case history: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams/ Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/photos/album/867903845/pic/list Foot Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/album/1767999070/pic/list |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Kerry, Missing one pergolide dose, or withdrawing it, for a day shouldn't affect the majority of PPID horses as it takes a couple of weeks for the total effects of treatment to stop. The caveat would be for a horse that has been difficult to get controlled, one who has experienced significant veil issues or one who requires twice daily dosing to maintain good control as this type of individual would likely be much more sensitive to changes in its drug regimen. If one withdraws pergolide from a horse for several weeks at a time on a regular basis then you really are not treating the disease. Instead, you are subjecting the horse to continual bouts of large hormonal swings and possible recurring pergolide veil issues and are inviting laminitis to strike. In that type of scenario the horse's health is being sacrificed for the sake of it's owner's pursuit of ribbons. Here is a post from Dr. Kellon: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/188463 Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
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lauramollrich
Hi Everyone,
Thanks Nancy especially for answering my banana question. :) Erin, my trainer, and I just give him about a 1" section. At least it's not getting spit out in the dark where we can't see it. Regarding showing and Pergolide. This is what we have been doing all year per USEF/USDF rules. Yes it is a Prohibitive substance. The drug must not be in their system 24 hours BEFORE competing. This is how we worked it with Pabatsa. If he had a class at 4:00 p.m. then shortly afterwards he would get his dose. The next day's class could be at 1:00. If only a small amount is still in the serum if he were to be tested the following day, they take into consideration the medical issues. I got this information from the USEF. Pabatsa just received two more 2014 awards. He got his USDF Horse Performance Certificate (10 scores, 4 competitions, 4 judges, and 4 scores from the highest level of the test. He just got his final qualifying score this past weekend at the Del Mar Dressage show. He is also ranked 8th by the KWPN North America (National). :) |
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