safe pergolide feeding for drug sniffer pony
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chf1752@...
I have pergolide capsules coming, and I'm a bit concerned about how I'm going to get them into Bella. She's very, very difficult about pills. However, she loves syringes w/ liquid. The first pergolide I got for her was in powder form, so I was mixing it with some water and syringe feeding her that way. Very easy. She's really good at sniffing out pills in her feed, and she's also been known to eat around treats with pills hidden inside. I know the capsules are the best in terms of stability, but I really don't know how to get them into her. The only "treats" I ever give her are ODTBC, since I know the sugar/starch is safe for her. She was diagnosed IR back in 2011, but had a normal ACTH at that time. The vet put her on 1mg pergolide anyway, but after a year there was no change in her weight even though she was on a low ESC+starch diet w/ balanced minerals. So I discontinued that. She had her first bout of laminitis in April 2014 after getting chilled and colicing. She had her second bout of laminitis this past September, when her ACTH came back extremely high. This time, there's been a dramatic improvement in her weight with 1mg of pergolide twice a day. My question is, since the IR came first with her, I need to be extremely careful about what treats I use to hide the pergolide capsules in, right? Through trial and error, I've found that she can't tolerate grain or beet pulp. The only supplement carrier that she'll eat is ODTBC. She refuses any wet feed. What can I try to hide the pergolide capsule in? The vet told me to use a carrot or some molasses, but I'm afraid of triggering another laminitis episode. Would the capsule dissolve in water? Then I could syringe feed it. I found that if I use 10cc of water, she doesn't waste any. This would be preferable, since I think it'll be the easiest way to go long term. I don't have current insulin and glucose levels on her, because the vet refused to draw them. I have a new vet coming in ~3 weeks, and hopefully I'll be able to get ACTH, insulin and glucose on her. Normally what happens with her is that I might be able to find a way to hide a capsule/tablet medication in a treat for a while. Eventually, she figures it out and winds up spitting the pill out after she eats around it. Erin ME 2014 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Bella/ |
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>The first pergolide I got for her was in powder form, so I was mixing it with some water and syringe feeding her that way. Very easy. Open the capsule,add it to water,and Bob's your uncle. Lorna in Ontario,Canada https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy. http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc
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Hi Erin
I've gone through a lot of what you describe, It's very frustrating and we've had to change and adapt a lot. Beau, very high Insulin and Glucose, currently gets 20 pills with his breakfast. Then 12 at night. With fewer pills I started with a grape. He got tired of that and every morning was a battle. We then went to a prune. That worked for about year. Some folks are using hollowed out tiny carrot. Nutrition data shows 1 gram of sugar in 1 baby carrot http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/3026/2 A pitted prune has 4 grams of sugar http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/2043/2 A grape has zero grams of sugar http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1919/2 Syringing in can work if you find a carrier they enjoy. Right now, Beau is happy with olive oil with his jherb, for example. He licks the syringe when he is ready to accept the next bit. If you check the picky eaters checklist you can find other ideas like, carrot powder or beet root powder that many horses like and are low sugar. Go here https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/8%20Pulling%20it%20Together/ Scroll down to Picky eater's checklist.pdf A checklist to help keep your sanity! Now that Beau gets so many pills, I use a Cashell feed bag with a hand full of Nuzu. Used to use it in just a bowl but got tired of chasing pills while he was swatting flies. He loves it and eargerly awaits his Nuzu and feed bag. You may have already tried Nuzu but if not, write to Andersen Feed for a free sample. http://nuzufeed.com/Contact.php#Email Whenever introducing new things, I've found it is important to introduce as a treat first, as opposed to a meal change or a drug delivery system. After 13 years of doing this for him, this little training change has made all the difference. ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc
---In EquineCushings@..., <chf1752@...> wrote : I have pergolide capsules coming, and I'm a bit concerned about how I'm going to get them into Bella. |
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Hi Erin
Sent a response to follow Lorna's concise answer which did not come through, but I'm still laughing at myself. OF COURSE if syringing in with water is the easiest by all means do that. Thank you Lorna and Uncle Bob. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
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And yes, Erin, Lorna has a waaaay simpler idea!!!!!!!
HA! Thanks Lorna. And Uncle Bob. :-) Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : Hi Erin I've gone through a lot of what you describe, It's very frustrating and we've had to change and adapt a lot. Beau, very high Insulin and Glucose, currently gets 20 pills with his breakfast. Then 12 at night. |
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chf1752@...
Thanks Nancy & Lorna,
Should I round up dosage if I mix it in water to syringe feed? The first pergolide I got was powder with a 1 gram scoop. I'm supposed to give her 1 gram once a day. I was mixing a rounded scoop with water then syringing that. The new pergolide is in 1 g capsules. Its from a different compounding pharmacy than the first. Should I open 2 capsules and mix 1 in then open the other and mix a little of it in? No matter how careful I try to be with mixing and syringing, it seems there's always a little left over. I want to make sure she gets the dose she's supposed to have. This is just to get me through until Dec 8 when the vet's coming to repeat ACTH and do insulin & glucose. Erin ME 2014 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Bella/ |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Erin,
I am assuming the capsules are 1mg, not 1g - correct? They are quite small. Just open one and pour it into the syringe. You only need a small bit of water as the powder dissolves almost instantly. Once you squirt that in her mouth, just suck up a small amount of water from her water bucket, shake the syringe and squirt the second bit in her moth. That way, you've rinsed out any residual liquid and perg into her mouth. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
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---In EquineCushings@..., <chf1752@...> wrote : HI Erin, >The new pergolide is in 1 g capsules. Its from a different compounding pharmacy than the first. Should I open 2 capsules and mix 1 in then open the other and mix a little of it in? I don't think I understand the question. But the dose should be whatever you would be giving if you didn't open the capsules.If you feed 2 x 1mg ( not gram) capsules,you would open both of those and syringe them in.If you're only feeding 1 x 1mg capsule, just open that one. Am I making any sense? Lorna in Ontario,Canada https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy. http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc
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Now I'm answering myself. >If you feed 2 x 1mg ( not gram) capsules,you would open both of those and syringe them in. When I had to open capsules,I used to fold a stiff memo card in half and dump however many capsules I needed into the folded card. I then tipped the powder that was in the fold into the syringe,which already had water in it. You can dump the powder in before adding the water,but I found it better the other way around. But I think you know this if you used to syringe anyway. Lorna in Ontario,Canada https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy. http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc |
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chf1752@...
Of course, 1 mg not 1 g. Guess that's what happens when I'm not fully awake when I post.
 She's been doing well on a rounded 1 mg scoop, which I'm assuming contains more than 1 mg of pergolide. The new pergolide capsules will be here tomorrow, and they're all 1 mg. Is there any reason to assume the new capsules will be more potent than the powder? Is it possible that 1 rounded scoop of pergolide powder will be as effective as a 1mg pergolide capsule? The capsules are coming from Pet Health Pharmacy. The powder was from Cameron Pharmacy and wasn't sealed when I got it. Sorry if I'm being really nit picky, but I've found that I have to pay close attention to even the slightest detail with Bella. Erin ME 2014 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Bella/ |
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Sharon Egan <egans20191@...>
Question about safety: are we supposed to wear gloves when opening the capsules. I've done that when upping a dose to get the .25mg without ordering 30 of them. But I never wear gloves.
My wonderful horse eats Pergolide any way at all. Sharon Virginia 2011 --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
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ALERT..... Just to be sure there is no confusion,we need to talk about 1 mg capsules, not 1 gram capsules of pergolide. I'm sure this has been a typo,but especially for new people here,we need to be clear. Lorna in Ontario,Canada https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy. http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc
>I think your concern is that if you crush a 1 gm cap and place the powder into the liquid in a syringe, that there will be traces left over in the syringe that are not administered, and you want to be sure she gets the full 1 gm dose. >Regarding the dosage, you would need to know how many mg of pergolide was in each gm of your compounded powder in order to insure that you were not making a dosage change when you switch to the 1 gm caps. If that info was not accessible to me then I would make an educated guess. |
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