Feeding


lj friedman
 

I am now almost finished with the gradual feed changeover for the 24 yr old cushings horse I take care of. Please comment on his soon to be a permanent diet. He will be getting Timothy pellets from sunrise Mountain,Fed three times a day, he will be getting beat pulp rinsed soaked and dumped but not rinsed. And I will also give him 4 to 8 ounces of triple Crown Omega. I know I'm supposed to give vitamin E but I'm lazy. So my question is, am I doing enough on the nutrition side? I don't mind doing more but I want to maximize efficiency and would prefer to Add as few products as necessary. And will I go to Cushing's hell if I don't re rinse the beat pulp and instead just rinse soak and then dump the water? LJ Friedman San Diego November 2014

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lj friedman
 

I forgot to add something about my posting about your opinions on feeding. The horse is not able to eat hay and I'm not willing to chop it in pieces are soak it Thanks LJ Friedman San Diego November 2014
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Chanda
 

If your horse can't eat hay and you don't want to chop or soak, then there are very few safe feeds available.

The Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes are complete diet with addition of Salt, Vit E and flax; but they should be soaked, some horses can probably eat them dry, soaking reduces chance of choke.  [I can't get them, but it seems I've read that they just need to be wetted, and it doesn't take much to fluff them up.]

I believe the Stabul 1 pellets can be fed as a complete diet and they are safe, but not always easy to get ahold of.  they are available through Tractor Supply, but a 10 bag minimum order is required.

Chanda

MT 9/04


Lorna Cane
 


>The Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes are complete diet with addition of Salt, Vit E and flax; but they should be soaked, some horses can probably eat them dry, soaking reduces chance of choke.


Just to say ,I have fed these cubes for years to numerous horses,and have only dampened when the cubes have been hard.

Otherwise ,my horses prefer them dry,lots of water available.


Knocking wood.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
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Lorna Cane
 


> Please comment on his soon to be a permanent diet. 

Hi Lj,

I'll echo what others have said and ask for a link to this horse's case history. We need to see the whole picture.

Add it to your signature so that we can go there easily,to review.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
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Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

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Bonnie
 

A friend has had his virtually toothless old gelding on ODTB cubes, soaked, for years, with good results.


Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08


palomino.1982@...
 

On the  diet : it's about  limiting starch/sugar AND mineral balancing. Halfway measures get halfway results.

Rinsing/soaking beet pulp without rinsing til water runs clear is counter-productive.  The goal is to remove sugars/iron  ( soaking ) , then rinsing them to remove from the beet pulp.

If you want a simple/no-hassle  feed program for Jesse, you can use ODTBC, add flax, Vit E and salt.  Cost per bag is ~$10 more than Mtn Sunrise timothy pellets/bag in SoCal and there is no need to add beet pulp  as the ODTBC are made from timothy hay / beet pulp and minerals are balanced.

In order to continue to offer assistance re Jesse, a Case History is needed.

Here is the link to join EC History 8 and fill out a 'medical record' for this boy.

https:groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory8

Susan
EC Primary Response
So Cal 2007









lj friedman
 

I was hoping to get approval that feeding mountain sunrise Timothy pellets plus a beat pulp plus Triple Crown omega Max is a complete diet? How would a diet like that compared to just getting regular hey Iand beat pulp? LJ Friedman San Diego number 2014

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Chanda
 

If the Mountain Sunrise timothy pellets are low enough sugar/starch they should be fine in that respect.   However,  you'd still need to get a mineral mix to balance the timothy and beet pulp to make it a complete diet.  The Arizona regional or CA Trace mixes might work, but I really don't know; or testing to actually balance the pellets and beet pulp.

Chanda

MT 9/04


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi LJ,

Wish it was that easy. The Mountain Sunrise pellets are a pelleted hay. They aren't tested or mineral balanced in any way so substituting them for hay doesn't help in the mineral balancing department. Plus, any pelleted feed will be inherently higher in iron from the processing and binders added. R/s/r beet pulp is great for adding extra calories or as a supplement carrier but also has an unbalanced mineral profile so needs to be accounted for when using more than 1lb dry weight. Its drawback is the labor factor.

The Omega Max is a flax supplement, which you will always need if the horse isn't on pasture in order to supply the essential omega 3's missing from the diet. Same for vit E and salt.

For simplicity's sake, the ODTB cubes plus flax, vit E gelcaps and salt are your best bet. Any other combinations may address the excess sugar/starch situation but won't do anything for the mineral balancing issues. The cost of the ODTB cubes is offset by no spending (money or time) on hay testing, other supplements to mineral balance the diet.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team





lj friedman
 

thanks for your reply.  I'm not "sold" on adding table salt?  If a cushings horse is drinking excessively and is currently NOT on pergolide, does it make sense to NOT start the salt until pergolide is added and thirst/drinking is more normal?   Today, I will purchase some odtb cubes to see if the horse will eat it.? Currently he cant eat hay and I will try soaked and not soaked cubes. As far as  spending time/money, I do spend time prepping the beet pulp daily ( 2 #) as I do this for my non-cushings horse and a few others, so if I:m already in prep mode, it will take very little time to add addl items. MY beetpulp reasoning is that the horse loves it.( treat) and I believe it MIGHT have some colic preventative properties.  If the hay cubes arent going to work well, my options are using the timothy pellets as a base OR using a complete senior  feed like senior  triple crown low starch/sugar. Which option is better?  I have lots of the omega flax and the vit E, which I just toss into the beet pulp mash.  The senior lowstarch/sugar complete feeds? are they very complete?  no flax or vit E needed? 


---In EquineCushings@..., <shilohmom@...> wrote :

Hi LJ,

Wish it was that easy. The Mountain Sunrise pellets are a pelleted hay. They aren't tested or mineral balanced in any way so substituting them for hay doesn't help in the mineral balancing department. Plus, any pelleted feed will be inherently higher in iron from the processing and binders added. R/s/r beet pulp is great for adding extra calories or as a supplement carrier but also has an unbalanced mineral profile so needs to be accounted for when using more than 1lb dry weight. Its drawback is the labor factor.

The Omega Max is a flax supplement, which you will always need if the horse isn't on pasture in order to supply the essential omega 3's missing from the diet. Same for vit E and salt.

For simplicity's sake, the ODTB cubes plus flax, vit E gelcaps and salt are your best bet. Any other combinations may address the excess sugar/starch situation but won't do anything for the mineral balancing issues. The cost of the ODTB cubes is offset by no spending (money or time) on hay testing, other supplements to mineral balance the diet.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team





Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi LJ,

You need to supply salt because there is a basic maintenance requirement for it that is completely separate from PPID/IR issues. Deliberately causing dehydration is not the way to handle the excessive drinking/peeing brought on by uncontrolled PPID/IR as it is not related to excess salt intake.

I currently have a 32yo with several missing teeth and the remaining ones are wearing out. His diet is becoming more and more ODTB cubes, softened with water so that he can masticate them easily and efficiently. Works very well. I use the Stabul 1 feed to add flavoring as he can be picky about supplements. This is the only grain-type feed that has guaranteed s/s levels.

The bagged feeds that say "complete" only refer to the fact that they will supply all the basic NRC minimum requirements for minerals so there aren't frank deficiencies when fed at the suggested levels. They do not take excesses, which can create relative deficiencies, into account, hence no balancing.

All the TC feeds contain too much iron, therefore are relatively low in copper, zinc. All will need to have flax added to provide the necessary omega 3's and vit E as it is a fat-soluble vitamin and needs to be in contact with fat to be absorbed properly. The s/s in most of the TC feeds are too high for an IR horse and they are not guaranteed to be at any particular level - they are only the "typical" or average value. The batch you buy can be higher or lower than what is "typical". Plus, an all-pelleted feed plan will leave your horse with nothing to eat for a large portion of every day as pellets have small volume and are consumed quickly. Definitely problematic for an IR horse and tends to cause stable vices in all horse as they then have nothing to do and feel hungry all the time.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team