Newbie questions


lj friedman
 

Remember I'm new to this so don't take my ignorance as a reflection of the group. Im a slow learner My first question concerns alfalfa hay which I remember being one of the lowest Hayes in sugar starch. If a horse could eat alfalfa hay and do well on it, wouldn't that be a fine thing where no special feeds are necessary? Next question, assuming that alfalfa hey is not a good choice, I need to choose between either the oDTP cubes which cost $32 with tax for 50 pounds or the mountain sunrise Timothy pellets which cost$20 for 50 pounds.when I crunch the numbers based on what I'll be feeding it is $112.50 more expensive to feed the cubes.each month vs the pellets I know the cubes have things that the pellets don't have.but because I've learned things on the group I have a non-Cushing's horse that I am now feedingtriple Crown omega flax, farriers formula, vitamin EE. So when I do my calculations and I use the cost of the pellets in my calculations, I don't include the cost of the carriers farriers formula or the Omega flex or the vitamin EE because I'm giving it to my non-Cushing horse and even though they do have a cost I don't care about the cost because I'm using these products anyway. Whether. .so with that being said if I had to choose between the pellets with the supplements that I am adding or the cubes that cost me one 125.00 more per month, what am I missing with the pellets and the supplements i include Vs , what the cubes offer with no supplements being added . LJ Friedman San Diego November 2014

Sent from my iPhone


gypsylassie
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <lj_friedman@...> wrote :

 I need to choose between either the oDTP cubes which cost $32 with tax for 50 pounds or the mountain sunrise Timothy pellets which cost$20 for 50 pounds.when I crunch the numbers based on what I'll be feeding it is $112.50 more expensive to feed the cubes.each month vs the pellet


Hi LJ,
I don't have time to get into the nutrition with you, still dealing with a very unwell husband ( 11 hrs in surgery today), but one thought on the ODTBCs.  If you can store them properly, the cubes last a good long time, just like properly stored baled hay.  Perhaps if you take a whole pallet you can get a better price.  That's what I do and stored on the wood floor in the haymow they keep very well.  It's a big chunk of $$, but better value in the end.  I can just get a pallet load in my pick up truck with a topper on it.  
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Laura,

Healing thoughts and prayers to your husband, hugs to you. Hope everything turns out OK.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>
I don't have time to get into the nutrition with you, still dealing with a very unwell husband ( 11 hrs in surgery today)


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi LJ,

Alfalfa usually has a relatively low total sugar+starch but the starch fraction is much higher than other hays and starch is converted 100% into glucose while the sugars only convert 50% into glucose. Alfalfa is generally very high in protein and calcium. Excess protein is not a bonus. To balance the calcium you will need to add a LOT of phosphorus - the most yucky tasting of all the minerals. Plus you will need to analyze the hay to find out how much copper, zinc, magnesium, manganese may be needed to actually balance the minerals properly. Anything you feed will require flax, salt and vit E as those are missing unless pasture is a large part of the diet.

The Mountain Sunrise pellets are an unknown as far as mineral content and s/s levels, although they are generally OK for s/s. Also would require added minerals and testing to know what they have/don't have.

ODTBC has everything already tested and all minerals added except flax, salt and vit E so you don't spend any extra money on testing, minerals. All horses benefit from having their diet correctly mineral balanced but those who are under extra stress/challenges have an even greater need to have their nutrition support them fully.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team





gypsylassie
 

Thanks Lavinia.  So far so good.  


lj friedman
 

Thanks for the reply. I priced out a pallet and they don't offer a discount because they said they make very little money on the product.

Sent from my iPhone


 

I just finished balancing the analysis from Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets. The daily "dose" of lysine, minerals, flax, vitamin E would run about $1.15/day. The pellets cost about $0.40/lb x 20 lbs/day = $8.00 + $1.15 = $9.15/day total.

The ODTB cubes would cost $0.64/lb x 20 lbs/day = $12.80. You would need to add flax and vitamin E for about $0.40/day = $13.20/day total unless you can source your flax seed locally at a better price. 

Of course, everything depends on accurate costs, the balance of the pellets, the upfront costs of minerals, scales, whether you make your own mix (double the amount above if you have a mix custom made), etc., etc.

For my money I would go with the cubes. Less hassle, less variability.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR Inc.
Missouri - USA - Dec 2005


lj friedman
 

can you send me the report for the mtn sunrise timothy pellets. I dont currently put in lysine/minerals unless the farriers formula has it?  ( I need to check their label) thanks lj friedman san diego 2014.


gypsylassie
 

Just one more thought.  When I was first looking for a source for the ODTBCs I called Aurelio at Ontario Dehy and asked him about availability in Northern Illinois.  One of his suggestions was actually a horse trainer with a boarding barn who got large shipments of several different  types of cubes.  It was a long drive, but was a fair price.  I now drive about 1 hr. to get them a little closer.  I let them know when I'll be needing them and they'll combine it with other shipments.  Of course the shipping all the way out to your area will be more, but Aurelio might have a couple of other suggestions for you to try.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <katmando@...> wrote :

Of course, everything depends on accurate costs, the balance of the pellets, the upfront costs of minerals, scales, whether you make your own mix (double the amount above if you have a mix custom made), etc., etc.

For my money I would go with the cubes. Less hassle, less variability.

= = = = = = = =
Also, the pellets are NOT guaranteed to be safe from a sugar and starch standpoint.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


 

It's not mine to send but you may find others like it in the file. Remember, this isn't "one size fits all." Those were just ball park figures to help you make a decision. 

Farrier's Formula has minerals in it.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR Inc
Missouri - USA Dec 2005


 

Yes, Dr. Kellon makes a valid point about the sugar/starch content of the MS Timothy Pellets. Honestly, I would go in the direction of the ODTB cubes. Much less hassle.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR Inc.
Missouri, USA - Dec 2005


Susan Zingle
 

You mentioned being in Northern Illinois - Grayslake Feed, 23 N Seymour, Grayslake, 60030, 847-223-4855, special orders ODTBC for me regularly.  Great service, although they frequently point out I am the only customer using them (!).  If their location is convenient for you, give them a call and I'm sure they'd add you to the list.  They order by the bag, no requirement for a full pallet or anything.

Susan, with Pony, Chicago, 2003


Nancy C
 

Hey Kathleen

To your cost analysis (thanks for doing that!) I would add the cost of testing per pallet, say every month and a half or so, at least until I knew where this was going and how reliable the batches were for S&S and minerals. 

Because this horse is PPID by symptoms and suspected to be IR, I'd want to make sure he was getting a tight mineral balance. Would want Equi-Analytical #603 test at $55.00, not the lesser expensive NIR test.

Would also factor in the time and cost of and experienced member actually balancing the loads or learning how to do it myself.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Mineral balance has a huge affect on how well PPID/IR horses deal with their health issues. See 

ECIR 2013 Proceedings Kellon Mineral Nutrition and Insulin Resistance

ECIR 2013 Proceedings Kellon Iron Overload and Insulin Resistance

2013 Proceedings & Recordings Table of Contents

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <katmando@...> wrote :

I just finished balancing the analysis from Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets. The daily "dose" of lysine, minerals, flax, vitamin E would run about $1.15/day. The pellets cost about $0.40/lb x 20 lbs/day = $8.00 + $1.15 = $9.15/day total.

The ODTB cubes would cost $0.64/lb x 20 lbs/day = $12.80. You would need to add flax and vitamin E for about $0.40/day = $13.20/day total unless you can source your flax seed locally at a better price. 



Valletta Lochridge
 

Thanks, Kathleen.  I'm the member who recently tested the Mtn Sunrise Tim pellets.  I'm happy to post the results of the Trainer #603, but can't figure out how to do it!    Can I email them to someone who can post them in the files??


Valletta in CA

Jan 2012