Update on Dixie and Dexter...need help with depressed mule!


Jacque White
 

Both Dexter and Dixie seem to be doing much better this winter.  I finally have them on Teff Hay.  I just sent in my analysis to Equi-Analytical and hope to hear in a few days. I am continuing to feed in 1 1/4 in hay nets 4 times a day. They receive AZ Copper with a small amount of Purina LS (1/2 cup 2x a day).  They haven't quite acquired a taste for the AZ Copper but get 1/4 cup 2x a day...soon to be increased to 1/2 cup 2x a day. They also get 2 ounces of freshly ground flax seed a day with Vitamin E and D, and 1 TBS of salt 2x a day.

Neither have shown any signs of lameness but I am concerned about my mule Dexter who seems very depressed.  He continues to eat but isn't very active.  He doesn't move much due to the icy conditions. I have sanded the arena to prevent slipping.  They are not kept in stalls but free to move about in a large area.  He chooses to stand in one place most of the day.  He is an introvert and very skeptical.  Is there anything I could do to bring him out of his depression??

Jacque

Alaska


Lorna Cane
 


Hi Jacque,

Good news about Dixie and Dexter.
But not good news about Dexter's depression.

We need your case history,which I know you were having trouble with last November.Please try again:
ECHistory8

Here is Lavinia's welcome message to you last year.

Please read it again carefully: 



Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 

 I always worry when mules/donkeys are depressed.My experience is that they just won't say anything unless it's really bothering them.

Need to get on it for Dexter,especially at this time of year.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 



Lorna Cane
 



>  He is an introvert and very skeptical.  Is there anything I could do to bring him out of his depression??


Hi Jacque,


I have done a search and have found the case history link for Dixie and Dexter.


Please add it to your signature when you post any messages.

Can you go there and update Dexter's case for us,so that we can make appropriate suggestions to help him.


ECHistory8



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance




Jacque White
 

Hello again...I have no updated information to add.  We do not have a local vet that can do blood work at this time. I will be doing blood work in June, hopefully. Just wanted some info on his depression.  Like I explained he is an introvert and not very active. Our weather is cold between 20 degrees and 7 right now. May drop lower in the next few days. Farrier was out last week...feet look good no issues. They have plenty of room to walk or run...I did see him buck and kick out today after rolling.  He just seems either bored or depressed.  I try to spend time with them as much as possible.  Petting,talking and grooming.  He just seems lost... and goes inside of himself.  I have been feeding a few roasted unsalted peanuts to them everyday. Is that okay?  I started giving 2000 mg of vitamin D due to the long dark winters, thinking they need it.  I received my teff hay analysis today and it was high WSC is 12.9, ESC 11.0, and Starch is 2.4.  I have been on the phone with Anderson Hay all morning trying to resolve this problem.  Not sure what to do?? 

Thank you for understanding,

Jacque White


Lorna Cane
 


>I have no updated information to add.


I asked because these items mentioned in your post,don't all appear in your CH,for example:


>They receive AZ Copper with a small amount of Purina LS (1/2 cup 2x a day).  They haven't quite acquired a taste for the AZ Copper but get 1/4 cup 2x a day...soon to be increased to 1/2 cup 2x a day. They also get 2 ounces of freshly ground flax seed a day with Vitamin E and D, and 1 TBS of salt 2x a day.


  >  I received my teff hay analysis today and it was high WSC is 12.9, ESC 11.0, and Starch is 2.4.  


The ESC plus Starch numbers are higher than we like to see.Preferable is under 10%.Some of our horses can't tolerate 10% even.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance



Jacque White
 

What is a CH?  I am sorry and where do I add this information?

Jacque White


Lorna Cane
 


>What is a CH?  I am sorry and where do I add this information?


Case History


Here is the link to Dixie and Dexter's Case History,which you have filled out in the past:


ECHistory8

 Click on the Case History link, and add current details to Dexter's so that we can see all in one place what he is eating,etc.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance



Lorna Cane
 



Jacque for updating instructions go  here, in ECHistory8’s Files:


ECHistory8

 



>What is a CH?  I am sorry and where do I add this information?



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance


 


jennifer
 

Jacque, your boy needs either a job to keep him busy or a playing buddy (horse or mule gelding). He needs hours of entertainment each day, play wrestling or doing a job. Our john mule would be like yours in a similar situation, and was the same as yours when we had only him and his best buddy, a molly mule. Since he has a playing buddy he is changed.
It doesn't really help to classify him as an introvert, even though some training theories think it necessary. He is just a boy with nothing to do. Ours was the same. I know you have a very nice setup, but that doesn't replace either a wrestling buddy or a full time job. Especially john mules urgently need a purpose in their lives.

Jennifer in Germany
Lramie July 2011


---In EquineCushings@..., <jacquewhite50@...> wrote :

 He just seems either bored or depressed.  I try to spend time with them as much as possible.  Petting,talking and grooming.  He just seems lost... and goes inside of himself.  


Jacque White
 

Thank you Jennifer in Germany,  He does have a mammoth Jenny for a buddy and she is a pistol but they haven't been as active as usual.  Our weather is cold again...3 degrees.  I think I will halter him and play some games....just to give him something to do!  I was just wondering if it had anything to do with the insulin resistance.


Thank so much,

Jacque White in Alaska


Lorna Cane
 


> I was just wondering if it had anything to do with the insulin resistance.



IMO it has a lot to do with insulin resistance.


Jacque, here is the case history link for Dexter.

Add it to your signature along with your joining date :


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dexters%20History/



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It could have to do with the insulin resistance if the cold is causing painful reduced blood flow to his feet related to high vasoconstriction or previous vascular damage from the IR.

Have you tried Jiaogulan?

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC co-owner
Feb 2001



 

This brings me to a question that has been haunting me for some time.  I have read that  vasoconstriction and reduced blood flow to the capillaries inside the hoof is an adaptation to the cold to protect the hooves.  1. Is this correct? and then
2. are we causing too much heat loss by keeping the blood vessels dilated by using Jiaogulan and therefore potentially causing more harm?  Especially when horses are standing in deep snow all day.

Just wondering.

Claudia
Ohio
NRC 1108
NAT 2010 (?)


jennifer
 

It could have to do with IR, yes. That needs to be ruled out first of course! :)
I know you have a Mammoth jennet, but it's different when geldings play even if you have a playful girl. :D

Jennifer in Germany
Laramie July 2011


---In EquineCushings@..., <jacquewhite50@...> wrote :

 I was just wondering if it had anything to do with the insulin resistance.