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Hyaluronic Acid Source

Donna Coughlin
 


Eva,

Thank you SO much for all the message links, I didn't think to look on ECHorsekeeping! Also for that translation; I was guessing that was it, but unsure.

I don't feed beet pulp (not a hit here), and they get just enough Lite and ODTB cubes to mix in their supplements--so I don't think there would be enough liquid for the HA powder. I'm fine with the capsules, esp. knowing they're high molecular weight.

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Obi and Robin
CT 2009

gentpony
 

Hi Nancy and Donna:

 

Nancy (and Jazzi),

> Regarding HA jell, if you add the HA powder to beet pulp and add water it becomes a jell with the beet pulp. This is how I feed it.

 

When mixing the HA powder into the BP, do you need to use cold water [less than 39’F, as recommended on the PureBulk site], and refrigerated BP?

How long does it take for the gel to form after mixing in the powder?  Does it need to stand in the fridge?

 

Joan’s directions do not specify temperature.  Is this important?

 

 

Donna,

>I remember that discussion ..., but ... also  ... in the end, recommended to "gel" it. Guess I could search the messages....

 

Here are links to msgs over in the sister site, ECHorsekeeping about HA, powder vs. gel:

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHorsekeeping/conversations/messages/10145

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHorsekeeping/conversations/messages/10521
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHorsekeeping/conversations/messages/13227

 

 

> I'm still somewhat confused because my research (pub med?) said high molecular weight was more than 10 kDA (I'm assuming that's a million daltons???  >….and low was 2-3.5 kDA.

 

Kilo means 1000.   A kDA is 1000 daltons.  

So 10 kDA = 10 x 1000 = 10,000 daltons   … the referenced minimum for high molecular weight HA.

The NOW brand HA, being 1 million (1,000,000) Daltons is certainly high molecular weight.

 

If low molecular weight HA is 2-3.5 kDA, that translates to 2000-3500 daltons.

 

Eva

SW Ontario,   March 2005

gypsylassie
 

Hi Donna,
Yes, it was recommended to gel it. I like the idea of gelling it when preparing the r/s/r BP as Nancy mentioned.
Glad little Duke is doing well. Those blizzards where the snow blows in are not fun. You and the horses stay safe.
Laura K Chappie & Beau
N IL. 2011
N IL 2011

Donna Coughlin
 

Hi Laura,

I remember that discussion as well, but somehow also remember that it was, in the end, recommended to "gel" it. Guess I could search the messages....

The NOW people actually answered me. Here's their reply: Our product's source is microbial or bacterial fermentation (vs chicken cartilage sourcing of other brands) and is 1 million daltons in size. Ingredients sourced  from China or US and, regardless of origin, are thoroughly  tested for quality and purity.

This avoids issues with impurities and varying molecular sizes that can be associated with animal sourcing of this compound.
We feel that this molecular size is safe and ideal as it balances well absorption/degradation.


As usual, I'm still somewhat confused because my research (pub med?) said high molecular weight was more than 10 kDA (I'm assuming that's a million daltons??? Then it makes sense.) and low was 2-3.5 kDA. 

The blizzard is raging here, and Duke is snug in his stall, top door closed (unusual) with a "brother" on either side. The snow is actually blowing in the barn through any little crack. A mess.....But nope, not lost in a drift yet--he's pretty wise and usually stays on the areas we shovel and plow for him. LOL, guess that's why he's gotten to such a ripe old age!!

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Obi and Robin
CT   2009


 

Nancy Reed
 

Regarding HA jell, if you add the HA  powder to beet pulp and add water it becomes a jell with the beet pulp. This is how I feed it.
Nancy and Jazzi
March 2013
San Diego County

edain_rides
 

  What are the thoughts on freezing the mixed HA?  Mix the powder with water as usual.  Then, measuring it out by the tablespoon (or whatever the dose size is) into ice cube trays and freezing?    Okay, I don't know if a horse would eat an ice cube, OR if the HA would lose its potency if it was stirred around and allowed to melt in the horse's carrier.    I do know that is how I have started to use it for myself, pulling out an ice cube and putting it in a glass of juice or water, putting it in the refrigerator until the ice cube is mostly melted before consuming it with my vitamins.  I used to mix up 6 ounces at a time, and keep it in the fridge, but before I got halfway through it had lost it's gel-like consistency.  Then there was always the problem of not finding the time to mix up more on time, and I was always running out and going without it for days or a week.   By freezing it, I can mix up 12 ounces at a time (or more if you have enough space in your freezer) which almost fills two ice cube trays.  It is SO much easier.    I just don't know if freezing it is good or not (it melts to a gel-like consistency).    Or if this idea would work for horses.

Barbara
Middle Tennessee
Sept 2007

gypsylassie
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <dwcoughlin@...> wrote :



....I couldn't find any info on the molecular weight of Purebulk's, but it is a powder, undoubtably cheaper than my capsules, but mixing it and remembering it from the fridge (house) to the barn is unlikely! In fact, that's why I've never gotten it from Joan. 

Hi Donna,
I can't remember exactly when, it was before Neo, maybe 2 yrs ago, but I was reading thru some messages about HA, the powder, the gel, etc.  And someone said they were using the powder from Joan and not mixing it with water. I believe they said it wasn't quite as effective, but they were seeing an improvement.  This goes back to when I often followed many subject threads, clicking on links, and searching here and there in the files.  (how I tracked down the pics of Duke, after seeing his furry little feet in the hoof section) Life's been pretty complicated the last 10 mnths and I'm not in the files or archives like I used to be, but  someone might remember or have additional comments on using just the pwd.  Of course, someone may have added comments about the pwd just not being worth using without being "gelled" and I missed it. I don't know if this will add anything to your HA info, but thought I'd mention it.
Hope little Duke doesn't get caught in a snow drift.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011

Donna Coughlin
 

Maggie,

Thank you so much for that link! It was a bit overwhelming....but I did get the numbers to differentiate between "high" molecular weight (10kDA--whatever that means) and "low" molecular weight (2-3.5kDA). Needless to say, can't find that info on either the NOW site or Pure Bulk. When I googled "Molecular weight of hyaluronic acid capsules from NOW, I was directed to their site where it said their HA is high molecular weight. 

I couldn't find any info on the molecular weight of Purebulk's, but it is a powder, undoubtably cheaper than my capsules, but mixing it and remembering it from the fridge (house) to the barn is unlikely! In fact, that's why I've never gotten it from Joan. BTW, Purebulk's is made in China, doesn't say where NOW's comes from, and I can't find that by searching, so I sent them an email asking country of origin.

And Nancy,

THANKS for the right source; haven't used Purebulk in a while, good reminder.

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Obi
CT 2009
(Waiting for the Big Blizzard!!)

Nancy C
 

My apols Donna, HA is available on Purebulk, not Nutrabio.   I use both sources for supps.  Knew what I wanted to type, but the wrong one came out! Sorry!


It appears to be powder only.  Bovine, Vegan and Wheat free available

Hyaluronic Acid (HA) - Sodium Hyaluronate - PureBulk

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT:  The fall seasonal ACTH rise was first documented by an ECIR Group member and her veterinarian after noticing her horse had repeated bouts of fall laminitis. Fall laminitis is now recognized as an early sign of PPID.  See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 







---In EquineCushings@..., <spiral1957@...> wrote :



I did look at the NOW HA and on the their "related site link" it says that their HA is produced by microbial fermentation.  So I started to search for the molecular weight of HA produced by microbial fermentation and found this:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3239841/    I was trying to read that when my grand kids woke up and that was the end of that!  

Sorry I didn't get any further, but I think it may get you started on researching the molecular weight of the NOW brand HA.  Or maybe someone with more knowledge/experience with HMWHA will chime in!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Maggie
 

Hi Donna,

Not Nancy, but I think I found the message from Nancy you were looking for.  Try this one from Jan 23rd:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/191599 

I looked on the NutroBio site and could not find hyaluronic acid. MyBestHorse does have it, but the instructions are for mixing, which you said you want to avoid :  http://mybesthorse.com/productinformation/hyaluronicacid.html 

I did look at the NOW HA and on the their "related site link" it says that their HA is produced by microbial fermentation.  So I started to search for the molecular weight of HA produced by microbial fermentation and found this:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3239841/    I was trying to read that when my grand kids woke up and that was the end of that!  

Sorry I didn't get any further, but I think it may get you started on researching the molecular weight of the NOW brand HA.  Or maybe someone with more knowledge/experience with HMWHA will chime in!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Lorna Cane
 



Hi Donna,


Not Nancy,but here is the message:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/191599


I just typed Nancy into the Search Box,and scrolled down through her messages to get it.


My Best Horse is the other source she mentioned.

www.mybesthorse.com



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
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Donna Coughlin
 

Nancy,


Within the last few days, you posted a resource for high molecular weight HA: NutraBio. Of course, I've scanned through days of messages and can't find that one.


When I went to NutraBio's website, there is no hyaluronic acid listed anywhere (including the overall, alphabetized list)? Is there another source?


I don't want to have to mix it from a powder and keep it in the refrigerator, and have found giving the human 100 mg. capsules to be easier and cheaper than the premixed horse liquid supps like Hyla-Rx. But I have NO idea if these human capsule from NOW, a reputable mfr., but there's no indication on the jar if it's "high molecular weight." 


Any other thoughts or suggestions?


Thanks!


Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Obi

CT 2009



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