Date
1 - 16 of 16
Approved IR feeds list
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beverly meyer
Is there a pelleted complete feed without Alfalfa? Could not locate a list to search, just random references. Toothless pony still refusing wet ODTB. I am in Central Texas. Thanks! Frustrated here... Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/
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Type NUZU Feed into the Search Box. 300 messages come up to give an idea of what this is and who is using it,and how they like it.
Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup |
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beverly meyer
Hi Lorna,
I opened 10 documents under the Anlayses of Various Feeds link and so far the pelleted feeds all have alfalfa. Nuzu has alfalfa. Does anyone know of alfalfa-free pelleted feed? In general, is there one concise list of approved pelleted feeds?? Maybe 10 or so?? I would love that! Thanks! If someone else replies before this is posted, thanks to you too! Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ -- |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Beverly, The list of safe feeds is extremely short: Tested, low s/s hay with minerals balanced to the assay; ODTBC with added vit E, flax and salt; Nuzu Stabul 1. The amount of alfalfa in the Stabul 1 is tiny - pellets are beige colored. Most pelleted feeds use alfalfa to some degree. Majority are also completely unsafe for an IR horse/pony. Only other option would be to use pelleted timothy or orchard grass hay but again, no way to know the s/s for those without testing and would still need to mineral balance them. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team >>>> |
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Included on the short list of safe feeds is beet pulp. No alfalfa included.
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: Fructans were a highly popular theory of the cause of laminitis approximately 10 years ago. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org ---In EquineCushings@..., <shilohmom@...> wrote : Hi Beverly, The list of safe feeds is extremely short: |
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beverly meyer
Hi Nancy,
Thanks for the reply that beet pulp is alfalfa free, but not as a total feed. I am looking for a complete feed with no alfalfa for my own needs, and was wondering if there isn't a single list of all approved feeds in general. So we have only ODTB, Timothy pellets, Stabul 1 and beet. That's it for all of us everywhere? That's terrible!! Thanks and let me know if any ideas come to mind! Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ -- |
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Chanda
Stabul 1 isn't alfalfa free, but it's not the main ingredient from the looks of it.
Chanda MT - 9/04 |
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Soy hull pellets? Beverly,most feed manufacturer's don't consider the special dietary needs of our compromised horses to be worthwhile. Bottom line thing,ya know? Thirteen/fourteen years ago I began to go through the nightmare,as have so many others ,of trying to find ingredients(Canada) to use that were safe. Manufacturers like to be able to use by products a lot.Check out the ingredients of most "complete" feeds. They also like to switch up ingredients from expensive to cheaper,according to the markets. It is not worth their financial while to even think about our horses. And many have actually TOLD me that over the years. We are so lucky to have Aurelio and Randy on board! When others catch on to how many compromised horses there are out there,and how determined their owners are to educate themselves,and improve the quality of their horses' lives,they will begin to want to help. And when horse owners begin to understand how very important diet is to our horses,and for that matter any horse they will start to insist on better choices. The diet recommended here is not sexy for sure. Does it provide optimum - not maintenance - health? For sure. I wish I had a dollar for everyone on this list who has become such a thorn in their feed dealer's sides that the dealer finally caved and ordered what an owner needed. It's slow. Baby steps. Can you tell us in point form all the ways you have prepared the ODTBC for Ginger? Does she accept one better than the other? How much are you feeding her at one time? Dry weight ? Is it possible she needs smaller amounts in each feeding? My Ollie used to need that in order to finish his meals. I prepared the amount I knew he needed,and then gave him ~ 1/3 , let him finish (he had no workable teeth) and refill tub,etc. Have you tried the flakes that break off the ODTB cubes? Have you tried grinding some of the cubes? Offered them dry? Then moistened? Sorry to go on and on,but there has to be a solution to help Ginger. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
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beverly meyer
Hi Lorna!
I am mixing ODTB with Timothy and beet pulp and much more water than ever before. Working back to 100% ODTB. BUT the main thing is that her feet/arthritis/slash whatever that all was for 6 weeks aren't hurting so much, and its been warm, AND I put her back on full dose Ranitidine ulcer meds. We got behind on ranitidine when she was off-feed and I think that's what caused the no-eating thing, once the pain thing improved.. And a good trim - hoping Lavinia will comment on new xrays and trim, even though no sole pics this week. So 2 1/2 days on full dose Ranitidine and she is eating much better! Somehow this all started with the new feed batch 2 months ago but then developed into some "perfect storm" combo with cold and too many supplements and the sarcoid treatment I think. Really don't know. I took her off everything except Pergolide and Ranitidne, E and salt. Will now start adding back one at a time. Thank you so much!! Must update case with tons of new info. Hope good trend holds with cold front in tonight. Best regards, Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ -- |
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>So 2 1/2 days on full dose Ranitidine and she is eating much better! Happy to hear this,Beverly. Do you keep a daily journal? (I use 4X6 lined cards,on a mini clipboard.But I also have some great small coil-bound note pads that work.Each stall has one) If you don't I highly recommend that you start doing that. Point form works. Note any changes in your management, and in Ginger's clinical signs. Very important. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
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beverly meyer
Hi Lorna,
Thanks for the questions on what I have tried to get Ginger to eat the November batch ODTB cubes. We never had this issue since starting in May. She weighs about 425 so the goal is 8 to 9 pounds/day minimum as she is ribby. She's probably eating a total of 4 or 6 pounds/day of combined foods for 8 weeks now. Before the current batch, I soaked only 30 minutes to an hour, and used only 1/2 liter water to 1 pound cubes. They opened up but still had some chewiness but with no hard bits for her toothlessness. Am now adding 1 1/4 liter water per pound to get them to fully fluff, otherwise too many stay hard. And then it's seeming too wet to me, but is not at all sloshing or in a clump like mash. I mix half a day's feed in advance, up to 12 hours as Pitchfork Princess suggested. Ginger does not like it more than an hour or two old, even in the cold with slower fermenting, but how else do I soak the AM feed for 2 hours now unless soak overnight? She will eat half of her other 3 meals but seldom eats but 1/3 breakfast. The consistency is cold, wet, twiggy (like wet chopped hay) and has no "feel" to it. She likes beet pulp to give it feel. And even likes unsoaked Timothy pellets even though she has no teeth! I am topping her feed with them as a tempter. Beet root and fenugreek do nothing. She wants "kibble" crunchies but seems sensitive to the alfalfa. Am back today to offering 4 pounds Timothy, 3 ODTB and 1 beet pulp, into 4 meals. Have given up on more ODTB than that until maybe a new batch tastes or fluffs differently. Any thoughts Lorna? Thanks for asking! She's doing well and seems eager to eat and go for walks. I posted the all new Lee Anne long format that we worked together on... Have not yet started to reduce Pergolide so wonder if that's part of it now. Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ -- |
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Hi Beverly
Not Lorna, bu having gone through this with multiple horses now... >>>She will eat half of her other 3 meals but seldom eats but 1/3 breakfast.<<< What happens over night? Does she finish it? it took my toothless 30 y/0 several weeks to get used to the new meals. Please note he did not have the added complications of foot pain and possible ulcers. Good news she is eager to eat. Many, many, many thanks LeeAnne for working on this Case History. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: With over 12,000 members and thousands of detailed case histories the ECIR Group has made it possible to spot patterns, many of which have been confirmed later by formal study. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org ---In EquineCushings@..., <bmeyer@...> wrote : Hi Lorna, Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ -- |
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beverly meyer
Hi Nancy,
You asked if she at least eats overnight... Not everything, but that is the closest to an empty bowl we get. None of these are new (to get used to), except my theory of the new ODTB batch texture in November. She'll eat anything else I give her, but with alfalfa off the menu, that leaves only Timothy pellets and beet pulp I think! If we stay on Tim and BP and ~ ODTB, is there an approved multi with no alfalfa? She's anemic and needs iron too. Thanks, Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ |
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>She's doing well and seems eager to eat and go for walks. Very glad to hear this,Beverly. Well done. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
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You might try dividing the meals up unevenly, ie give her more at night when she has more time to eat. IME, if they know you are coming with fresh food, they will not finish what is in front of them. That is assuming she does not have mouth of gastric ulcers, bad foot pain and other things previously discussed with you.
Where is the anemia reported? Did not see it in her Case History. Anemia in horses is rare. It is likely anemia from her disease state, called anemia of chronic disease. Do not give her extra iron. She getting more than enough from the diet she is on. Please check Dr Kellon's 2013 proceeding on Iron Overload and IR at Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
and the links to messages below. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/157824
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/97838
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/100107 Nancy C in NH She's anemic and needs iron too.
Thanks, Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ |
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Hi Beverly, >Any thoughts Lorna? If you haven't tried this, I would give her half of her usual meal. I think I've mentioned this before. It sounds counter-intuitive but I have first-hand experience with a horse for whom this worked. It can also work with people,as I'm sure you know. See if she cleans it up, or if she leaves half, or at least some amount. Compare the amount she leaves when she gets only half at first sitting,and see what you conclude. I don't mean to feed *just* half for that meal,period. I mean offer her half first,see what she does,*then* offer her (fresh bowl) the other half.You can save whatever she left on first serving ,add it to what she may leave on second serving,and compare to how much she leaves when fed the undivided meal. Should tell you something. If she doesn't like a meal more than 2 hours old is it because it gets cold? Rhetorical question. If so, try adding some warm water to it just before serving. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
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