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lj friedman
Omg.. updating a CH seems to be beyond my comprehension despite all of the helpful links. I will look to hire a more tech savy person to help add this info as I know it is very important.. lj friedman san diego nov 2014 old ch
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> He was taped at 1078,, so, without stressing Jesse to go to a scale station, I dont know what weight to call him. If he were mine,and taped correctly , I would call him 1078, or 1100, pounds. Can you add both your case history link and your photos link to your signature. Can you also update your case history with recent lab numbers. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
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> My vet agreed that it would be helpful to call Cornell and get a full thyroid panel.. for cornell this is FT4. T4 and T3. Would getting the additional results make sense? Im fine with Cornell running these tests.. but to have to re-draw blood to send to MI is certainly an option but I'm not sure it is worth it.. ) as you know, I know nada about horses. It's up to you, Lj. This is from Lavinia's message to you yesterday : If you want to run a full thyroid panel - TT3, FT3, TT4, FT4 - the blood sample needs to be sent to Michigan State University as they are the only lab that can do the equine FT3 test. As Nancy mentioned, the low thyroid is probably due to Euthyroid Sick syndrome, where it is secondary to other causes and will self-correct once the other causes are fully addressed. In Jesse's case, this would be the IR, PPID, possible iron overload and the mineral imbalances in his diet. Would be good to reread the entire message. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
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lj friedman
Thanks for the reply. My vet agreed that it would be helpful to call Cornell and get a full thyroid panel.. for cornell this is FT4. T4 and T3. Would getting the additional results make sense? Im fine with Cornell running these tests.. but to have to re-draw blood to send to MI is certainly an option but I'm not sure it is worth it.. ) as you know, I know nada about horses.. I will not treat the thyroid , as you discussed and will do a better job of getting the iron out of the beet pulp.. are there any other sources of iron overload? Jesse gets farriers formula ds, . tc omega flax and 3 oz table salt and vit e and 2mg selenium via yeast.
As well, I will retest acth april/may.. If I had to zoom in on when to test exactly, would may 01 be better than may 31? vice versa? (I can set up a reminder to retest acth on the best day you suggest..) I feel a bit sad that he is IR and cushings.. I was hoping for just cushings,,. but am glad he is tested and I know how to proceed, with the group's help !!! thanks again... I try to soak up all the info you relay to me ) lj friedman san diego nov 2014. ECHistory8
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi LJ, If you want to run a full thyroid panel - TT3, FT3, TT4, FT4 - the blood sample needs to be sent to Michigan State University as they are the only lab that can do the equine FT3 test. As Nancy mentioned, the low thyroid is probably due to Euthyroid Sick syndrome, where it is secondary to other causes and will self-correct once the other causes are fully addressed. In Jesse's case, this would be the IR, PPID, possible iron overload and the mineral imbalances in his diet. The leptin being in normal range points to PPID and diet as the causes for the severe IR status. Definitely no pasture grazing recommended as the risk for laminitis would be quite high. Turnout with a sealed muzzle would be fine. Adding exercise in the form of ground work, if not rideable, would be a plus. Testing and tightly mineral balancing his diet would also be a plus. This would also be the route if iron overload is an issue. The r/s/r of the beet pulp has a purpose - first rinse cycle is to remove iron and other foreign debris, soaking to leach out sugars, final rinse cycle to remove the sugars that have been leached out. If PPID is the driving force then you won't be able to get the IR controlled without really tight control of the PPID. His ACTH is still higher than the upper range of normal during the non-seasonal rise period. One option is to wait til April/May and retest to see where it is at the natural lowest-ACTH time of year. If it doesn't drop into the low-to-mid-twenties range then raising the pergolide would be advisable. Re-testing in August would then be needed to see if the seasonal rise was over-riding the then-current pergolide dose. If he was my horse, I would tighten up the diet and PPID control before adding thyroid meds as it doesn't sound as if Jesse has any excess weight problems that would point to wanting to try to immediately jump start his metabolism for weight loss. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
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lj friedman
I didnt see all of your post.. Yes, the T-4 is listed correctly at 0.090 ugl/dL ref 1.0- 3.0. Do you see any value in calling Cornell to run a full thyroid panel on the blood that they keep there if additonal labs are needed?
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lj friedman
Yes.. I can post pix of Jesse. The vet thinks his wt is more likely to be 1200-1300 and the vet thinks he;s good at estimating wt w/o tape.. He was taped at 1078,, so, without stressing Jesse to go to a scale station, I dont know what weight to call him. You can see pix of Jesse at the hoof section, and let me know if you want pix in this forum lj friedman san diego nov 2014.
ECHistory8
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palomino.1982@...
Just want to add that when I saw Jesse a few months ago- he presented with a hard crest and fat pads in the usual places. Ribs were easily felt.
He had a large/rotund pot belly along with a dropped top line.....which to some may mean: fat horse. Susan EC Primary Response So Cal 2007 |
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I would not put this horse on pasture. And I would want to make sure his ACTH is within normal range. It may come down to that as we go into summer, but will need careful monitoring as you approach September. I would not wait until next year to test, but would want to know things are okay for Jesse in late August and adjust meds if needed for seasonal rise.
Seasonal Rise
Have you listed the t4 correctly? .090? The thyroid med may help him loosing weight if in fact he needs to lose weight. At 950 and 15.3, he may just have abnormal fat pads vs being obese. Check this file on Body Condition and how to check weight. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Body%20Weight/
Most of us have found that getting the horse on balanced diet and correctly managing PPID improves thyroid without the meds. See info on euthyroid sic syndrome https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/105460 Since Jesse can't be ridden, ground work is in order for him. DDT - Exercise
Here's how to use your iPhone to work in a Word, etc.,, so you can get this stuff into your CH. Edit Word, Excel, and PowerPoint docs on your iPad and iPhone, for free
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: Standing on cement significantly reduces blood flow to the equine foot. See R. M. Bowker, VMD, PhD, Nerves, Nerves, Nerves: Why Are They So Important To The Horse? 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org and See RM Bowker, VMD, PhD, The Vascular Cushion Of The Frog What Does It Do? 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
>Results yielded 2.69 .017 11.06 > Severe IR |
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You are correct,Lj. Over the years,we have found lab normals to be too high . Lots to read about this in the Archives,and in our Files. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
>Results yielded 2.69 .017 11.06 > Severe IR |
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lj friedman
I plugged in Jesse's numbers, thinking he was not IR, but this shows severe IR. Can someone re-check this? glucose 97 mg/dl (71-113) insulin baseline 35.89 ulU/ml ( 10-40) Results yielded 2.69 .017 11.06 Severe IR Leptin is ok at 3.18 ng/mL .so I assumed no IR problem as these lab vaues are all in the normal reference range? thoughts? still learning lj friedman san diego nov 2014
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