depression and ppid


lj friedman
 

New barn for Jesse, ( past 3 weeks) BO thinks hes not as up as he should be.. she has no reference but is comparing to other horses.  Are there herbs to elevate mood for our cushings/severe ir horses.  If acth is 43 , and normal is up to 35, would that be a factor to less than hoped for mood?  lj friedman san diego nov 2014I I will be retesting in next week and might bump up pergolide a bit to account for seasonal rise time. 


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Jesse%20and%20LJ%20Friedman/



lj friedman
 

I searched web.. I dont think apf will help. It prevented the veil or maybe there was no veil to prevent..other things to try besides apf?


fionn@...
 

Have you tried APF?  For Fionn it helps any time he seems kinda blah.  So it’s not just for the Pergolide Veil, at least in my experience.  I know it is way expensive so I kept trying to go off of it, but every time I did he got all blah again.  So I’ve just given in and kept him on it.  Sometimes I raise the dosage if he’s feeling down.  It always seems to help him.  Of course, every horse is different.

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Joined June 2012
fionn@...

Case history:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams/

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On Apr 23, 2015, at 2:44 AM, lj_friedman@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:


New barn for Jesse, ( past 3 weeks) BO thinks hes not as up as he should be.. she has no reference but is comparing to other horses.  Are there herbs to elevate mood for our cushings/severe ir horses.  If acth is 43 , and normal is up to 35, would that be a factor to less than hoped for mood?  lj friedman san diego nov 2014I I will be retesting in next week and might bump up pergolide a bit to account for seasonal rise time. 



Nancy C
 

Hi lj

Yes PPID could definitely be a factor.

Adaptogens can help even when you don't have the veil.  The good news is, you know right away if it is what they needed.  Besides APF, you can try jherb or American Ginseng.

See adaptogens doc in the files.

Did you check you case history for labs yet?


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

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I'll second American Ginseng, assuming Jessie isn't on J-Herb. I saw a real improvement in Satra, a leveling of mood. It smells wonderful! This grower in Ontario produces it. http://www.raineyginseng.com/ginseng-powder-capsules.html

In Satra's case, the problem wasn't depression but over-reaction and wild-eyed sensitivity in an ordinarily sane, sober and reliable horse.

  

Cass for Satra and Cayuse
Sonoma County, Calif Oct 12
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Adaptogens can help even when you don't have the veil.  The good news is, you know right away if it is what they needed.  Besides APF, you can try jherb or American Ginseng.


lj friedman
 

thanks for the reply,, I inputted the labs..


for depression, should jherb or American ginseng be my first try?


lj friedman san diego nov 2014


Nancy C
 

I'd go for the jherb but the Previcox (did you enter that on your CH too?) will interfere. My next try would be American Ginseng but again, not sure about NSIOD interference.  On the run so I'll let you do the message archive search on "ginseng" and "NSAID"

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: Iron overload has been identified as a significant factor in IR horses
that are not receiving a mineral-balanced diet. (Nielsen, BD, Vick, MM, Dennis, PM, 2012. A potential link between insulin resistance and iron overload disorder in browsing rhinoceroses investigated through the use of an equine model. J Zoo Wildl Med. 2012 Sep;43(3 Suppl):S61-5.)
See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, Iron Overload and Insulin Resistance, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 


 


Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Lj,

How many hours a day does Jesse spend in his stall?  Does he have a paddock attached to his stall so he can roam about?  Is there the opportunity for him to be turned out with another horse in a dry paddock or with a grazing muzzle for a few hours per day?  I am wondering if he isn't either a bit bored so he seems shut down and/or perhaps is craving some horse interaction.  Did you consider getting him the Nose - It Ball or something similar filled with pellets  for him to "play" with at night since he can not eat hay?  

It took my horses longer than 3 weeks to adjust to their living situation when I moved them home from their boarding situation.....If he was more animated before the move than maybe he needs more time to settle in.........not sure what the BO is looking for or observing.....maybe more specific observations from her would be helpful.    


Kathy Brinkerhoff




Kerry Isherwood
 

LJ,

Putting aside the barn owner's thoughts, what is *your* interpretation of your horse's mood? Is he any different than before the move?

Strangers who met my mare might say she's "depressed" -- she is very placid, very stoic, quietly eats hay, scratches on the same fence post, rests under her tree, naps at 11am, never screams or paws for late meals, etc. She's just an old, content horse that does the same boring things each day.

The one thing she does show emotion about is jumping -- she will literally drag you to a jump she gets so excited. There are days I may not feel like riding one more but i do it for her happiness and weight control. Its what makes her happy.

Is there an activity that your horse enjoys? Grooming, or handwalking? I remember he has hock arthritis, but is he sound enough for walks on a nice trail for short distances? It may be that he just needs more of *you* (something he's familiar with) to help him settle after his move

True depression in veterinary terms means withdrawn from normal routine; hiding or not interacting w owners; decreased interest or appetite for food; lethargic/not wanting to move, etc. In general, a change from the animal's normal behavior.

If there has truly been a big change in your horse's behavior then it warrants figuring out what's bothering him. If not, then your barn owner just needs to get used to an old Cushings horse. No big deal. So start by asking yourself if you observe any differences in your horse before and after the move, remembering that some horses are quite stressed by major changes while others will seemingly eat/sleep anywhere.

Kerry in NY
Pinky Sept 2014
Tofurky Nov 2014


Nancy C
 

Two thumbs up Kerry.

It's helpful to rate him on a scale on  daily basis and keep track over time.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: To diagnose IR, the ECIR Group recommends a non-fasted, simple blood draw for serum insulin, glucose and leptin and the use of VA Polytechnic Proxies. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, Diagnosis of Insulin Resistance and PPID, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org
IR Calculator

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <kerry.isherwood@...> wrote :

LJ,

Putting aside the barn owner's thoughts, what is *your* interpretation of your horse's mood? Is he any different than before the move?


lj friedman
 

thanks for the reply.. I think Jesse has always been stoic. after all those years as a hunter jumper.. When I first met him over 1.5 yrs ago, he would just hang in the corner of his stall and look sad.. At least now.. he makes plenty of noise when I approach.. ie food lol.. he is 24.. so no change from the horse I know.. a bit more animation could never hurt.. I will consider a walk around the area.

lj friedman san diego nov 2014
ECHistory8

 




gypsylassie
 


Hi Lj,
I agree with Kerry and trying activities with Jesse.  Perhaps his years as a working hunter jumper were "all business" and he's not familiar with the idea of people as friends.  We had a little QH who had been a working ranch horse who had "shut down"  in response to rough handling. (not to say that Jesse was mishandled), after being here for a while, and doing some fun activities,  he opened up and had the cutest personality.  And Chappie and I developed an even stronger bond during the year of handwalking while his hooves were growing out from laminitis.  We'd chat with the neighbor cow/calf herd, explore different fields, etc.  I always had one of his treats, peanut in the shell, celery, and if we got somewhere kind of "scary" he'd get the treat while we investigated. (And now we have the low s/s treats from Stabul 1)

Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL. 2011

---In EquineCushings@..., <lj_friedman@...> wrote :

. I think Jesse has always been stoic. after all those years as a hunter jumper.. When I first met him over 1.5 yrs ago, he would just hang in the corner of his stall and look sad.. At least now.. he makes plenty of noise when I approach.. ie food lol.. he is 24.. so no change from the horse I know.. a bit more animation could never hurt.. I will consider a walk around the area.