Commercial minerals
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Hi, I've said before that my hay comes from various sources, only 50 bales at a time and so would not be very useful to have tested. Also, my Cushings horse is eating minimal hay due to chewing difficulties. He is getting 19 Lbs of Stanlee Timothy pellets and 4 Lb of Stabl 1 daily. What should I do to balance this? Thanks, Merle, Dec 2014, East Texas
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Since the bulk of his intake is th Standlee, I would test those or try to obtain info from the company. In order to make it effective you'd want to have a pallet or so from the same lot to which you can then balance the minerals. IOW testing one or two bags is like testing your 50 bales of hay.
The issue with teh Standlee ismamking sure the ESC and Strach is where it needs to be. An alternative is to use Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes. Low ESC and Starch, balanced minerals. If you have a Triple Crown Dealer near you, you can get these. Alfalfa Cubes / Alfalfa Timothy Cubes - Ontario Dehy Inc.
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: Blood flow to the foot passes to the rear of the foot, providing support and dissipating vibrational energy. See RM Bowker, VMD, PhD, The Vascular Cushion Of The Frog What Does It Do? 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <mktnr3@...> wrote : He is getting 19 Lbs of Stanlee Timothy pellets and 4 Lb of Stabl 1 daily. What should I do to balance this? Thanks, Merle, Dec 2014, East Texas
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Chanda
How many bags of Standlee pellets to you buy at a time? When I inquired about sugar/starch levels, I was told they just do averages for their information, and if I need more specific data that I would need to test. However, bags with the same batch number all have the same product in them, so if I buy or reserve a whole pallet, then all bags from that pallet/batch number would test the same. [Don't know of many stores that would reserve a pallet to wait for testing results, but with as much as you are going through daily, I'm going to guess you probably buy a pallet at a time and could test from each pallet to then get minerals to balance.] It's possible since Standlee is based in Idaho, that CA Trace ( California Trace - Nutritional Support for Horses ) or the Arizona Regional Mix from HorseTech might be a close balance for you (or you can always get custom mix, I think Horsetech does that). If you choose to test a few batches, you might find after doing so, that they run similar enough to use the same mineral mix for all the Standlee Timothy pellets you buy (might also find the opposite and that they vary quite a bit from batch to batch). [P.S. most my horses love the Standlee Timothy pellets, except for my Cushing's gelding, he's incredibly picky, and can take or leave pretty much everything I try with him, although he does eat our homegrown hay readily (wish I could pellet that and try it on him).]
Chanda MT 9/04 |
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I do not have a place to store a pallet's worth of hay pellets, as it is I am having to special order the Stabl1 and store in a spare bedroom. I don't even have a truck. I can only haul several bags at a time. I usually get 4 bags per week. Standlee Timothy pellets is cheaper than paying $25 or so per bag for the ODTB cubes, but it is still pricey. With vet bills and feeding bills, I am about tapped out on keeping my Cushing's horse.
I appreciate the help from this site, but it seems geared for people who buy tons of forage at at time. I'm not meaning to be a rude ingrate on this; but I would appreciate recommendations for people who buy small quantities of forage at a time, as well as for people who have limited funds to spend. Merle, Dec 2014, East Texas |
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>I appreciate the help from this site, but it seems geared for people who buy tons of forage at at time. Not at all, Merle.Have you checked out our Files section? Here's one that might give you some ideas: Lorna
in Ontario,Canada ECIR Moderator 2002
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
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Hi Merle
Forgive me, Merle, but you asked what to do to "balance" 19 pounds of Standlee. We're all on a budget. The majority of us have had to spend many hours rethinking what we were doing to get the best we can for our horses with the assets we had available. That includes money, barn or storage space, available vets, farriers, etc. For example, I have room only to store 80 bales at a time. I've been here 12 years. Had to work step by step to find resources and approaches that get my horse what he needs with out going into bankruptcy. The group knows what works for these horses from years of experience reported on 1000s of horses and how to do it most cost effectively. When you hear from the volunteers here is a bit from the philosophy they are working with as a foundation. All too often members find our Yahoo discussion group after significant, unresolved problems arise. Owners are very anxious to quickly find something that works. We understand. All ECIR groups are based in science and medicine. The approach is called the Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise (DDT/E) Protocol. Owners, moderators and responders on the discussion group strive to deliver a clear, consistent message which you may find unfamiliar or rigid. The advice is based on achieving the best possible outcome and delivery will not deviate from that goal. I have used ODTB Cubes as a complete diet fro my 31 y/o gelding. The resuts were worth the effort even factor in the extra cost in reduced costs for vets for skin issues, choke, and more. The issues with Standlee have been discussed many times. Not guaranteed to be low ESC and Starch. Not balanced. Can you use CA Trace? Sure. But your diet will most likely not be balanced for optimum health of your IR/Cushing's horse and you don't know how much simple sugar and starch he may be eating. His insulin is affecting his feet, even if he has not had laminitis. Could you use Mag Ox instead of Remission and save money? You bet. You are probably already doing this, but just in case...recommend you keep track of exactly how much you spend so you can compare. Good luck! Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs. See Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
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Hi, Oh, so sorry about your trouble getting supplies... I am lucky, we have storage, etc. & ODTBC's are fairly cheap here. Don't give up though, Can you get set up to soak hay in small hole nets? That would help a lot... I don't know your situation, but maybe you can find someone in your area interested in doing the same type of feeding for their IR horse and you can share & store tested hay, even if it is on pallets (w/ plastic on the dirt) and covered with a tarp.... maybe you have a skill that you can barter for the use of a truck... The folks in the group give great advice, but it can take awhile to get everything in place.... all the fuss as opposed to the high cost of vet bills may be worth it for you in the end. Meanwhile, I salute you for dragging forage home in a car, and I am rooting for you and your horse to succeed. Best wishes, Michele & Elijah Mustang, Everson, Wa Jan 2015 |
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Donna Powell
Nancy, What is Remission? I searched and only found info on Remission for cancer. Donna, Beaufort, SC ECIR May 2011 From: "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" To: EquineCushings@... Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2015 5:12 PM Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: Commercial minerals Could you use Mag Ox instead of Remission and save money? You bet. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs. See Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
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Chanda
Donna, Remission is a commercial magnesium supplement for horses, labeled as being for horses prone to laminitis. It's available from many places, but I usually get it from Horse.com AniMed Remission
While plain MagOx is cheaper, if you can get it locally, I can't, so I order Remission. [If I'm paying for shipping, then free shipping from Horse.com for my whole order, is better than what shipping costs to freight most things.] Chanda MT 9/04 |
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Donna - Tractor Supply usually carries it also, if you need it immediately.
Jean and Amber In Summerville, SC August 2004 |
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Donna Powell
Chandra, Thank you for the info. Much appreciated. Donna, Beaufort, SC ECIR May 2011 Donna, Remission is a commercial magnesium supplement for horses, labeled as being for horses prone to laminitis. It's available from many places, but I usually get it from Horse.com AniMed Remission
While plain MagOx is cheaper, if you can get it locally, I can't, so I order Remission. [If I'm paying for shipping, then free shipping from Horse.com for my whole order, is better than what shipping costs to freight most things.] Chanda MT 9/04
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Debbi Mayes
Ok I am trying to understand how this is so much less expensive in comparison to quiescence ! And this has more in it ! Just a tad less mag than Quiescence but for the price difference I am shocked ! Sent from my iPhone Thanks , Debbi Mayes On May 16, 2015, at 7:18 PM, "Donna Powell midnightstarulysses@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
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Donna Powell
Jean, Thanks. Good to know. So nice to have a "local" on board. Donna Powell, Beaufort, SC ECIR 2011
Donna - Tractor Supply usually carries it also, if you need it immediately. Jean and Amber In Summerville, SC August 2004 |
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Hi Debbi
If you mean that Quiessemce is more expensive than Remission, my guess is the maker would point to chelated magnesium and chromiu added to Quiessence. The vast majority don't need those additions. Mag Ox is readily absorbed by the horse (unlike people). Most hays have adequate chromium, exception being hays grown in alkaline soil. Also want to point out that Maggie was referring to feed grade magnesium oxide being a lot less expensive than Remission or Quiessence. A 40 pound bag of Mag Ox costs about $20.00 in my area. I feed two tablespoons a day and the stuff lasts for months. Works great. I can spend the saved money elsewhere. May I pretty please ask you to add your general location and date of joining the group to your sig? It helps us alot. Many thanks. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: It is impossible to tell how “good” a hay is by just looking at it. See Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <debbi.mayes@...> wrote : Ok I am trying to understand how this is so much less expensive in comparison to quiescence ! And this has more in it ! Just a tad less mag than Quiescence but for the price difference I am shocked ! Sent from my iPhone Thanks , Debbi Mayes |
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Chanda
Debbi, Part of the price difference is Remission is powder, while Quiescence is pelleted, so less "manufacturing" in the Remission. I've seen more advertising on Quiescence, so perhaps some of that plays in the price. It can be tricky getting a horse to eat Remission, since it's powdered and not overly tasty; I worked mine up to their daily dose, and they'll eat it dry mixed with their pelleted feed, little to no problems with those that will eat it (I have one that won't eat any powdered supplements, and mixing with soaked beet pulp doesn't work very well either). Chanda MT 9/04 |
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Debbi Mayes
Chanda , I have to say I am touched at how nice and helpful everyone is in this group ! Thank you for the heads up. This is a tricky pony ... So getting him to actually eat the Remission could be tricky ! Debbi Mayes / mphs tn 2015 Sent from my iPhone Thanks , Debbi Mayes On May 17, 2015, at 5:55 PM, "chandab@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
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Debbi Mayes
Nancy - yes .... I am so sorry. I am officially signing up tonight ( Computer vs my phone ) today is my first day :-) guess I am just excited to be a part I this group and plan on attending the conference in nov ! Again I am sorry and get official once home ! Debbi Mayes Memphis tn 2015 Sent from my iPhone Thanks , Debbi Mayes On May 17, 2015, at 4:17 PM, "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
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My horse gets the Timothy pellets because he can't chew hay well anymore.
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Hi mktmnr3 Please don't for get to sign your posts!
Many many thanks Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs. See Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <mktnr3@...> wrote : My horse gets the Timothy pellets because he can't chew hay well anymore. |
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