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Diet help!
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Melissa Coupar
Hi there, I am new to the group! So I hope that it is okay to be asking some questions. Please let me know if not :) My 21 year old mare was diagnosed with PPID about 5 months ago. She is now on 1 mg/day of pergolide and doing quite well. I am struggling to come up with an appropriate nutrition plan for her though. Back in August all her mineral levels were in a good range. However, now she gets hay from Alberta, as it is low NSC, fed from a slow feeder. I am aware that Alberta hay has a lot higher mineral content than our local British Columbia hay ( more selenium, zinc etc.), but I am waiting until she has been on this hay for 5 months before testing her levels again. She gains weight very easily so we really have to watch hay her intake. She also currently gets 1 and 3/4 cup of Step 7 from High-Pro Feeds (this a Canadian product, as we are from British Columbia, http://www.hiprofeeds.com/products/step-7-equine-supplement-pellets), flax, salt, MSM, and about a cup of beet pulp, twice a day. I am considering switching her over to the AllPhase feeds (http://www.morrisonagri.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Lite-All-Phase-Pellet-Product-Info.pdf), and maybe fiber max? As they have lower sugar contents. However, I am weary about the soy. I understand that soy hulls are different than the inside of the soy bean, but the AllPhase feed has soya oil in it too. I am wondering if anyone can provide some insight into the matter? There is so much competing information available online! Also all of the people I have talked to have completely different opinions, and I am feeling a bit lost! Thanks so much in advance. Regards, Melissa Coupar
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Melissa,
Welcome to the group. It's always OK to ask questions - that's the best way to learn :) One of our mods is also from BC. I've given Jaini a heads-up so hope she can chime in with some specifics for you. Thanks for filling out a case history for Chloe - it makes our job so much easier when all the pertinent info is in one place. Here is the link to her history - it is a real help when you include it with all of your posts. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Melissa%20and%20Chloe/ Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team
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janieclougher@...
Hi, Melissa - Welcome to the list! I am travelling at the moment, but will address your feed concerns when I get home tomorrow. In the meantime, I can tell you absolutely that there is nothing in the All Phase line that is suitable. Any one of those products will blow the feet off of an IR/PPID horse.
However, Pro Fibre Crunch from Hi Pro feeds can be used in small amounts, and is great as a taste tempter. At 4.5% starch, though, I find it makes one of my horses foot-sore if I feed more than half a pound. I use HiPro soy hull pellets, and Champion beet pulp pellets. Hang in there - more info to come when I am home on my own computer! And please do ask any and all questions! :) Jaini and crew Smithers BC 2009 ECIR mod/support ........... There is so much competing information available online! Also all of the people I have talked to have completely different opinions, and I am feeling a bit lost! Thanks so much in advance. Regards, Melissa Coupar
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Maggie
Hi Melissa, Welcome to the group! Thanks for getting your CH done! It really gives us the details to help you better! I see Lavainia gave you a link to it. So that we may find it easier and get to your questions faster, we ask everyone to please include that link in your signature each time you post (in addition to your name, general location and date of joining). I see that Jaini has addressed the Step 7 from High-Pro Feeds and is going to give you more information today. In the meantime, I will just run through our philosophy with you. It's called DDT/E, which is short for Diagnosis, Diet Trim and Exercise. I'll give you some details on each part. Diagnosis: So you have a diagnosis of PPID, so that's a great start. I didn't see any lab work in your CH. If you could include the actual numbers in you CH, that would be great. It would be helpful to know what her initial ACTH was. I see that you suspect her also to be IR (insulin resistant), and I bet she is too. Those fat pads over her tail head are pretty suspicious! She is a cutie, BTW!! Many, many PPID horses are also IR. Some are IR "at baseline" and sometimes a high ACTH drives the insulin up and causes the IR. The test that we use to help differentiate between the two is called a leptin level. Leptin is a hormone that says "stop eating" and IR horses are also usually leptin resistant, so the leptin levels are elevated as well as their insulin levels. Did you do an insulin on Chloe when you did her ACTH? The 4 tests that we recommend to get a complete diagnosis are ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin. Jaini can fill in the details about where the best place to send the labs are in BC. Meanwhile you might want to have a read on our website on the diagnosis page: http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diagnosis And in fact, the entire website contains a wealth of great information, so while you are there, you should peruse the entire site. And for a bit more information on leptin, here is a link to our folder on insulin resistance. The first file is about leptin: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Insulin%20Resistance/ This Canada file may also be helpful for you: As you know, PPID is treated with medicine (pergolide) and IR is treated with Diet. So let's get to the details of the Diet that we recommend. Diet: The diet that we recommend is low sugar starch (tested to be under 10% combined sugar+starch) grass hay with the minerals balanced to the hay analysis. To replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. I looked at your hay analysis and at 6.99% sugar (ESC) and 0.77% starch, it comes in under the recommended 10% so that's great!! Unfortunately, it looks like they didn't do the trace mineral analysis, so we won't be able to use that analysis to help you to balance the minerals. But it's definitely a start to know that the hay comes in under 10%! We all strive for that, since it means no hay soaking required!! It's great that you are using slow feeders! We love small mesh hay nets (smhn) for helping to slow down the voracious appetite of IR horses. You should be feeding Chloe 1.5-2% of her BW per day. Lots of us use a fish scale (available at Walmart or online) to weigh the day's allotted hay amount in the smhn's and divide it up into several feedings/day. Leptin resistance=voracious appetite=no "free choice" hay!. They generally master those slow feeders pretty quickly so we have to devise a way to make their allotted hay amount last as much of 24 hours/day as possible. I started out with regular small mesh hay nets which had about 2" holes. When my pony mastered those, I doubled his hay nets. When he mastered those, I tripled them, but that was too hard and frustrating for him. Ultimately, I found these nets with 1" holes and they have worked out the best so far. Despite him being rather aggressive with them, they have held up really well. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=28689&cmpid=06cseYY&ref=XXXX&subref=AA&ref=6111&cmpid=06csegb&kpid=109661 I see that you are feeding beet pulp. It's a great low glycemic food and a great carrier for you supplements, but can be very high in iron. To make it "safe" we recommend that you rinse it until clear, then soak it and then rinse it again. This removes the surface contaminants (dirt/iron), and the remaining sugar. Good to see that you are giving Chloe flax, but 1/2 cup may be a bit too much. We generally recommend 2-4 oz. You are right to be concerned about the soy oil. It has an "upside down" Omega 3:6 ratio, i.e more 6 (pro inflammatory) than 3 (anti inflammatory). We use the flax seed because it has an Omega 3:6 ratio of about 4:1, which is about the same as grass. I also see that you are supplementing MSM. We don't recommend MSM. You can read why in this file with information on joint supplements: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Joint%20Supplements%20-%20Glucosamine%2C%20MSM%2C%20Hyaluronic%20Acid/ There are other safe joint supplements that you can use to treat her arthritis. A couple that come to mind are HA and Mov-Ease. Both are available here: http://mybesthorse.com/ I also see that you are using a "selenium block" in your CH. Selenium is one of those trace minerals that can be toxic in small doses over the recommended amount. We don't recommend mineral blocks for several reasons. They are often high in iron, and since most IR horses are already iron overloaded, we don't want to add any extra iron--they get plenty in their hay. Also, those blocks also contain other minerals and since you can't control how much they eat you can't balance the minerals in their diet. We balance each mineral to the hay, in the correct ratios, so that we know exactly what our horses are getting. A carefully balanced diet is an essential part of treating PPID as it supports their delicate immune system. Once you get your copper and zinc in the correct balance you may well see that chronic thrush that Chloe has clear right up! You should also supply a plain white salt block in addition to the iodized salt that you add to her feed. Ok, on to Trim: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. In footsore horses, it's often the last piece of the puzzle to fall into place. We encourage members to post pictures of their horses feet so that we can help you to evaluate if the trim is as ideal as possible. You will notice in the ECH8 group, where you filled out your CH, a "photos" section at the top. All photos should go into that section. The "files" section (where your CH is) has limited space and photos use that space up quickly. Also, it's much easier for us to view your pictures in the photos section. If you want to add pictures of Chloe's feet, first go this this website and read about how to take good hoof pictures: http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html Last part, Exercise. The best IR buster there is! But a laminitic horse should never be forced to move! It doesn't sound like Chloe has had any hoof issues and you have her a a pretty regular exercise regime so that's great! Often times, it's when the exercise stops that BAM! Laminitis rears it's ugly head! So keep up the good work on providing Chloe with plenty of exercise! That about wraps up the DDT/E philosophy. I know it's a lot of information! The learning curve here can be a little steep , but with over 12,000 members and ~15 years of collective experience, we can tell you that the DDT/E works! Yes, there is a LOT of conflicting information on the internet. Before too long, Melissa, you will be an expert at sorting through that information and knowing what is valid and what is not. Meanwhile, take some time to read our website and files. Also, you can search the archived messages for any question that you have, but never hesitate to ask questions! Like Lavinia said, it's how we all learn! Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA March 2011 EC moderator/Primary Response https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/ |
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Maggie
Hi Melissa, Well ,shoot, responding to my own post now! Just as I was closing out your hay analysis, I noticed that it was an NIR analysis. Sorry, I didn't notice that before. Unfortunately, we have found the sugar/starch can be up to about 2% off when using that method. We recommend using wet chemistry to test your hay, rather than the NIR method. In the link I provided earlier to the Canada file (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Canada%20-%20%20Sources%20for%20Products%20%26%20Services/ ), is a file on sending your hay from Canada to EquiAnalytical. You want the #603, trainers package for $54. That will give you all the information on your hay that you need for one of our balancing folks to help you. Jaini may have better information on hay testing in Canada, so wait to hear from her. Additionally, I just wanted to mention something that you are going to need to be aware of. The "seasonal rise" is a time of year in the fall, when all horses have a rise in their ACTH, but PPID horses often have an exaggerated and prolonged rise in their ACTH, putting them at increased risk for developing fall laminitis. Often times an increase in the pergolide dosage is needed for this time of year. Read more about the seasonal rise on this page of our website: http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/cushing-s-disease/seasonal-rise Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA March 2011 EC moderator/Primary Response https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/ |
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Melissa Coupar
Wow, thank you all so so much for the wealth of information. I am truly touched! I wish I had known about this group a few months ago- although I am slightly less overwhelmed now haha. I have done the case history file as best I can for now, but I have put a call in to my vet to get the results of the blood test we did back in December that showed her ACTH levels. I will post it when I have it! I don't know the exact numbers, but the vet said it was over 300, which even given the season confirmed the PPID. It's a bit of a blur, but I do believe we tested Insulin when we tested her. However I never got the confirmation from the vet, just was told to treat her as if she was regardless in the interim. Certainly should have confirmed that (oops :/), and I will when I talk to her again about the lab results! That is very good to know about the beet pulp, salt block and MSM! After spending some time reading through this website more, I came across the issues with MSM! She gets an IV injection of Legend (hyaluronate sodium) every month, so the MSM is probably not even necessary. Just something I have always left in her diet. And I will definitely be tossing the selenium block, and getting a white salt block- Gosh I am so glad I came across this group. I am very thankful to have an amazing ferrier, who is very very on top of this issue too. Her feet also grow incredibly fast, so he's out every 4 weeks for her trim. There have been no changes in her feet (knock on wood), and she has never had a problem with sore feet or anything. That's great to know about uploading the pictures too, thank you! Looking forward to hearing more about your experience with feed up here in BC, Jaini! I understand the beetpulp is good, but I have also heard the Otter Coop beetpulp can have huge ranges in molasses levels... so not too sure how that affects things. Thank you all again! And thanks for your patience while I figure out the group protocol too :) Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 |
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janieclougher@...
Hi, Melissa - Chloe is lovely! Thanks for the case history - good work. What breed is she?
I went and double-checked the All Phase stats. Starch in the products varies from 10% to 12% (much, much too high for any IR horse, even fed at the recommended rates) and ESC from 5% to 7% or so. I can tell you from experience that one of my mares can't tolerate more than half a pound (250 grams) of the Pro Fibre Crunch, which is only 4.5% starch and 4% ESC. (so she doesn't get any, to her annoyance) The Step 7 supplement comes in at a whopping 29% starch, unfortunately. Since you are in Victoria, I assume you can only get stuff from Otter Co-op, not from Champion? The Otter beet pulp pellets are quite variable in molasses content; interestingly, my horses won't touch them, although they will eat the Pro Form and the Champion beet pulp pellets just fine. (all being rinsed, soaked, rinsed, of course) If you can get the Step 7, you should be able to get Pro Form beet pulp (same company) They also make soy hull pellets. To determine what minerals to feed, testing the hay is better than blood samples (except selenium and vitamin E) The other minerals don't show up as abnormal in the blood until they are seriously and wildly out of whack in the tissues. The only real way to check mineral stores in the body is by liver biopsy, but nobody in their right mind would do that as a routine check! So testing the hay is the way to go (although doing blood selenium and E is still nice, especially if you need to check for excess selenium) I use Hi Pro for a quick turn-around test if I am trying to figure out what hay to buy, but once I get the hay home I send a sample of 20 or so cores to Nutrilytical in Calgary. http://www.nutrilytical.ca/ They are affiliated with Equi Analytical in New York, and will send the sample on. Ask for Trainer # 603 In the meantime, commercial supplements that are good to use while waiting for the analysis are California Trace and Arizona Copper Complete. Both are from the States, unfortunately, so shipping is a killer. In Canada, the Mad Barn Basic Mineral Mix is good for Alberta hay (but too high in manganese for BC hay), although there is selenium in there as well: https://www.madbarn.com/product/madbarn-trace-mineral-pak/ There are no major minerals in it, but it is easy to add a teaspoon or so of magnesium oxide. The owner of Mad Barn (whose name escapes me at the moment) has also expressed an interest in doing custom mixes for Canadians. Other choices are Dr. Reed's No. 2 mix, and Hoffman's Performance mix (again, too much manganese for BC, and one has to add magnesium) Vitamin E has to be touching oil to be properly absorbed, so most of us use 400 IU capsules with soya oil in them. One has to read the label, because some are manufactured with just glycerine and no oil. I get mine from National Nutrition Canada http://www.nationalnutrition.ca/ Hope that helps!
.....Looking forward to hearing more about your experience with feed up here in BC, Jaini! I understand the beetpulp is good, but I have also heard the Otter Coop beetpulp can have huge ranges in molasses levels... so not too sure how that affects things. ...... . Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 |
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Melissa Coupar
Hi Jaini,
Thank you so so much for your advice! And thank you, I think she is quite lovely too! haha. She is a Morgan x QH :) Yes I think that I can only get my stuff from Otter Co-op. I am not familiar with Champion. Wow that is very good to know about the Step 7 (I was informed by their company that it was a great option for PPID/IR horses- you really have to be your advocate apparently). So I should be getting her off of that fairly quickly-yikes! It sounds like for now, some loose minerals and beet pulp or soy hulls may be the route to go? Plus the magnesium (if using the Mad Barn Basic Mineral Mix), flax, and salt. I've been wanting to add the Vit E, but am unsure how to go about it. Do you poke the capsule and squeeze out the oil/E at every meal? I am at a boarding facility, so slightly limited in my options. Although I could do that with a handful of beet pulp when I am out at the barn, as I am there every day. Another question, I noticed in another discussion someone mentioned the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balanced Cubes... do you think that that is a potential route? Thank you again! I so appreciate your time! I will definitely get on the further hay testing! Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 ---In EquineCushings@..., <janieclougher@...> wrote : Hi, Melissa - Chloe is lovely! Thanks for the case history - good work. What breed is she? I went and double-checked the All Phase stats. Starch in the products varies from 10% to 12% (much, much too high for any IR horse, even fed at the recommended rates) and ESC from 5% to 7% or so. I can tell you from experience that one of my mares can't tolerate more than half a pound (250 grams) of the Pro Fibre Crunch, which is only 4.5% starch and 4% ESC. (so she doesn't get any, to her annoyance) The Step 7 supplement comes in at a whopping 29% starch, unfortunately. Since you are in Victoria, I assume you can only get stuff from Otter Co-op, not from Champion? The Otter beet pulp pellets are quite variable in molasses content; interestingly, my horses won't touch them, although they will eat the Pro Form and the Champion beet pulp pellets just fine. (all being rinsed, soaked, rinsed, of course) If you can get the Step 7, you should be able to get Pro Form beet pulp (same company) They also make soy hull pellets. To determine what minerals to feed, testing the hay is better than blood samples (except selenium and vitamin E) The other minerals don't show up as abnormal in the blood until they are seriously and wildly out of whack in the tissues. The only real way to check mineral stores in the body is by liver biopsy, but nobody in their right mind would do that as a routine check! So testing the hay is the way to go (although doing blood selenium and E is still nice, especially if you need to check for excess selenium) I use Hi Pro for a quick turn-around test if I am trying to figure out what hay to buy, but once I get the hay home I send a sample of 20 or so cores to Nutrilytical in Calgary. http://www.nutrilytical.ca/ They are affiliated with Equi Analytical in New York, and will send the sample on. Ask for Trainer # 603 In the meantime, commercial supplements that are good to use while waiting for the analysis are California Trace and Arizona Copper Complete. Both are from the States, unfortunately, so shipping is a killer. In Canada, the Mad Barn Basic Mineral Mix is good for Alberta hay (but too high in manganese for BC hay), although there is selenium in there as well: https://www.madbarn.com/product/madbarn-trace-mineral-pak/ There are no major minerals in it, but it is easy to add a teaspoon or so of magnesium oxide. The owner of Mad Barn (whose name escapes me at the moment) has also expressed an interest in doing custom mixes for Canadians. Other choices are Dr. Reed's No. 2 mix, and Hoffman's Performance mix (again, too much manganese for BC, and one has to add magnesium) Vitamin E has to be touching oil to be properly absorbed, so most of us use 400 IU capsules with soya oil in them. One has to read the label, because some are manufactured with just glycerine and no oil. I get mine from National Nutrition Canada http://www.nationalnutrition.ca/ Hope that helps! |
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janieclougher@...
Hi, Melissa -
It sounds like for now, some loose minerals and beet pulp or soy hulls may be the route to go? Plus the magnesium (if using the Mad Barn Basic Mineral Mix), flax, and salt. Yup - sounds good to me! For flavouring options check here (Picky Eaters file, about 3/4 of the way down in the " 8 -Pulling it together" folder): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/8%20Pulling%20it%20Together/ For the Vitamin E, many of us just toss the capsules into the carrier. If the carrier is damp, they will soften and the horses won't even notice. Some horses like to seek the capsules out and pop them. If they refuse the capsules for the first week or so, persevering will often result in acceptance (like toddlers); or you may be forced to piercing and squeezing (pain in the neck!) ODTB cubes would be absolutely fabulous, but Otter stopped carrying them (argh!) But maybe if enough of us ask they will start again. (hope springs eternal.....) Cheers! Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC 09 ECIR mod/support http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/
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Melissa Coupar
Hi Jaini, Thank you so so much for all of this information! I'm sure you've heard it a million times with such a large member base, but you guys are saviours! I will definitely add to the squeaky wheel and send an email about the ODTB :) Have a great weekend! Warm regards, Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 >>>ODTB cubes would be absolutely fabulous, but Otter stopped carrying them (argh!) But maybe if enough of us ask they will start again. (hope springs eternal.....) Cheers! Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC 09 ECIR mod/support http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/
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Melissa Coupar
Hi Jaini, Hope you don't mind if I pester you with another question! I placed an order for the Mad Barn Basic Mineral/Vit Mix, and in my email inquiring about shipping, the fellow suggested the Omneity IR mix for an all-in-one supplement for PPID/IR horses. Have you had any experience with this mix? Seems to have more antioxidants etc. Thanks again! Regards, Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Melissa, You'll learn as you go along how to read labels so that you won't get drawn in by the advertising rhetoric. More isn't always necessary or better. The best product is going to be the one that most closely matches and complements the excesses and deficiencies in your particular diet. The kitchen sink approach is never the best or most economical. Not Jaini here but the Omneity IR mix is not suitable for IR horses. It contains a number of additional vitamins/minerals that aren't recommended as they may worsen IR (niacin, riboflavin, thiamine); A couple of the ingredients are either contaminated by iron or enhance iron absorption, which is already overabundant in an IR horse (dicalcium phosphate, ascorbic acid/vit C). A number of ingredients that either aren't needed at all or have questionable effectiveness: added potassium which all hays have an excess of; vit A, E and D, which are fat soluble vitamins and aren't well absorbed unless in contact with fat; chromium which is only needed for hays grown on alkaline soils. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team >>>>>>>>>> >>>In Canada, the Mad Barn Basic Mineral Mix is good for Alberta hay (but too high in manganese for BC hay), although there is selenium in there as well: https://www.madbarn.com/product/madbarn-trace-mineral-pak/ |
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Melissa Coupar
Hi Lavinia,
Thank you so much for the reply. It is a big learning curve, isn't it :) I sort of assumed if there was such a great all-in-one product available for these IR horses, everyone would be using it! I have to stop talking to these feed supplier reps, I am too easy of a sell hah! Glad I stuck with the basic package then. I am slowly making my way through some of the archived discussions and documents (I am a Master's student, so crave any non-school reading I can get-though there isn't much time for it haha!), and was able to find some discussion around the questionable effects of other minerals/vitamins. Sorry if I am repeating some of the questions that have been asked in the past, don't want to waste anyone's time or resources, just learning the system still! Thank you again for the help! Warm regards, Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 |
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janieclougher@...
Hi, Melissa! In addition to Lavinia's excellent response, here are some interesting numbers for you:
The Omneity IR mix has a bunch of stuff of questionable value, but bless their hearts for including the iron figures! This allows us to coax out how much of the copper and zinc are "useable" (ie,not negated by the iron) Each serving gives81 mg of iron (actually, a nice, low number); plus 275 mg zinc (214 mg useable); and 45.6 mg copper (20 mg useable) It costs $2.00 per day. Now, have a look at the Trace Mineral Mix: negligible iron, as what is in there is just from the manufacturing process, not from the dicalcium phosphate or other ingredients. 523 mg zinc, 130.7 mg copper, 5.44 mg I, 3 mg selenium. (similar iodine and selenium in the more expensive Omneity mix) The cost is $0.20 per day. Twenty cents per day vs two dollars per day. To be sure, the Trace Mineral Mix won't supply calcium, magnesium or phosphorus, but the Trace Mineral Mix is only a stop gap while you are getting the new hay analysis. At that time, we can address the major minerals. Mad Barn means well, but they are lacking some crucial and cutting edge information on equine mineral absorption and IR/PPID. No worries about asking questions - it IS a steep learning curve, and no one is born knowing about IR, PPID, horse nutrition or the sometimes dubious marketing practices of feed companies. I am quoting Lavinia below, as this sentence nicely states what so many of us have learned, sometimes after prolonged, expensive, and detrimental efforts to the contrary: " The best product is going to be the one that most closely matches and complements the excesses and deficiencies in your particular diet. The kitchen sink approach is never the best or most economical." Cheers, Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC 09 ECIR mod/support https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/ groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini% 20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/ ---In EquineCushings@..., <melissacoupar@...> wrote : Hi Lavinia, Thank you so much for the reply. It is a big learning curve, isn't it :) Warm regards, Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 |
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Melissa Coupar
Hi Jaini,
Thank you so much again for your advice. It is very helpful learning how to actually interpret the nutrient specs! Hopefully I will become more proficient with analyzing them soon. The price difference is quite significant- easy to think more expensive must mean better. I will definitely get on the new hay analysis ASAP. Thanks again to everyone for being such great resources! Melissa Coupar, BC, Canada May, 2015 >> The Omneity IR mix has a bunch of stuff of questionable value, but bless their hearts for including the iron figures! This allows us to coax out how much of the copper and zinc are "useable" (ie,not negated by the iron) Each serving gives81 mg of iron (actually, a nice, low number); plus 275 mg zinc (214 mg useable); and 45.6 mg copper (20 mg useable) It costs $2.00 per day. Now, have a look at the Trace Mineral Mix: negligible iron, as what is in there is just from the manufacturing process, not from the dicalcium phosphate or other ingredients. 523 mg zinc, 130.7 mg copper, 5.44 mg I, 3 mg selenium. (similar iodine and selenium in the more expensive Omneity mix) The cost is $0.20 per day. Twenty cents per day vs two dollars per day. To be sure, the Trace Mineral Mix won't supply calcium, magnesium or phosphorus, but the Trace Mineral Mix is only a stop gap while you are getting the new hay analysis. At that time, we can address the major minerals. |
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I realize this post is older, but I wanted to make sure nothing has changed since then: would the MadBarn Amino Trace + still be the only safe option for IR?
-- Natalie New Brunswick, Canada 2019 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tane%20and%20Natalie/Tane%20Case%20History%2012312019.pdf |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Natalie, Is there something specific you're trying to supplement for? Has anything changed since you last did your case history? In the ideal world you would have your hay balanced so your horse is getting the minerals that he needs as opposed to doing a general mineral mix, but Mad Barn is just one of several options available for the IR horse.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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