jherb, cox inhibitors, anti-inflammatory herbs


beverly meyer
 

I have read so much about these all interacting with each other and affecting nitric oxide production.

But I get more confused as I go!

Is there a statement somewhere of the herbs and products OK to use while on Jherb and which are not?  I'm completely overwhelmed trying to decipher this.

So; white willow, bromelain, turmeric, devils claw, phyto quench, move ease, pain drugs (not Bute or Previcox)  and so many more.  Can ANY of these be used with jherb??

Is there a concise list hidng somewhere or can one be written?

Thanks and my pony says thank you too.  

Beverly 6/14

Beverly Texas

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ 




beverly meyer
 

I  meant to add, I am using jherb for chronic lameness, and my case is not updated recently but Ginger is only on E and chia, and two tiny pinches of jherb.  It just seems a lot to ask for a speck of herb to change this laminitis pain.  
But I'm paranoid to add anything and interfere with Jiagulan if it will break this pain cycle.
Thanks,
Beverly 6/14


Lorna Cane
 


>Is there a statement somewhere of the herbs and products OK to use while on Jherb and which are not?


Check out our Files,under Jiaogulan.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Lorna Cane
 


>  It just seems a lot to ask for a speck of herb to change this laminitis pain.  


I've never found just a speck of J-Herb to be useful for any of my guys.
Can you reread the File on dosage? It should be helpful here.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





beverly meyer
 

I have read the files on Jiagulon and nitric oxide but I cannot find a summary of what is OK and what is not to go with it. Old files contradict new. New products are suggested, and old disappear, etc.
Many files are from readers saying what they use rather than what Dr. Kellon suggested.
Can someone who knows write the short list of yes's and no's for me and the pony? I'm full up with vets right now and cannot do another 4 hours of searching!
Also, the dose says 1/2 tsp. twice. That is a tiny little pinch! Is that really a full dose? Am I misreading that??
Thank you all for helping when help is needed.
Beverly 6/14


Lorna Cane
 



> Old files contradict new. 

Please help us help you better by pointing out the contradictions,so we can make corrections.

>New products are suggested, and old disappear, etc.

Can you say this another way?I'm not following.

>Many files are from readers saying what they use rather than what Dr.
Kellon suggested.

Yes,but to my knowledge the Files have all been vetted,so if a person says 'X' works, the comment will have been seen by Dr. Kellon,and removed if it were incorrect.

>Also, the dose says 1/2 tsp. twice. That is a tiny little pinch! 

For me a 'pinch' is a bit held between 1st finger and thumb,which is not as much as  1/2 tsp.
The correct dose will depend on the horse/pony.It is recommended to check the gums and when they become pink the dose has been achieved.Usually.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




Lorna Cane
 

Sorry Beverly.Typed too fast with last message.I'll delete.
Let us know the contradictions you have found in the Files.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup






beverly meyer
 

Let me ask a simpler way!
What herbs, medicines or supplements have folks found are ok with Jherb for persistent lameness and pain?  
I'd really appreciate some help. 
Thanks,
Beverly 6/14


Lorna Cane
 


>Let me ask a simpler way!

I hear ya, Beverly. I've been told I'm thick before.I use Lyme Disease as my excuse.

I thought the info was in the Files.
Can you point us to the contradictions in the Files to the information there about what items should not be used with Jiaogulan? We'll get the erroneous material removed so that you and others have an easier time knowing how to proceed.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





beverly meyer
 

Hi Lorna,
The message you referred to was on Phyto Quench and Bioflavonoids which somehow morphed into MovEase info. Not jherb.
But I guess I can use that MovEase info for jherb even though they're so different. One for arthritis and one for chronic laminitis as I understand it.
The message reply on MovEase is below my signature here for those interested.
If there's any other direct pain support while waiting for jherb to work, I'm open to emails on that. Watching this pain is the hardest thing I've ever done and $1000 a month in vets, acupuncture, herbs, meds, labs, xrays, Adequan, farrier, etc. is causing me huge anxiety too.
Thanks
Beverly 6/14

Mov-Ease is ok with:
Jiaogulan, APF (APF Pro, APF Plus), Ginseng, Thyro L, Chondroitin sulfate, HA, Glucosamine, AAKG, ALCAR

It is not indicated with: 
Quercetin, Curcumin, Milk thistle, Boswellia, Devils Claw, Cats Claw, Pine Bark extract
As those may dilute the mechanism of action



Archive search may help you Beverly.  Bioflavonoids, PQ, Mov-ease all discussed many times.


Lorna Cane
 


>The message you referred to was on Phyto Quench and Bioflavonoids which somehow morphed into MovEase info. Not jherb.

Yes.
My next message to you was an apology for going too quickly.
I deleted it,as I said I would.

Can you help the volunteers do a better job with the Files,by pointing out the contradictions you said you found there?
We want to be as helpful as possible,and contradictions are not helpful,as you know.
We'd really appreciate your help.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Maggie
 

Hi Beverly,

The third file down in the "Jiaogulan, Nitric Oxide support, AAKG & supps" folder called "Jiaogulan doses and precautions" is a clear outline of what should be avoided with Jherb and under that are the instructions on how to titrate the dose.  Here's the link:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Jiaogulan%2C%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support%2C%20AAKG%20%26%20Supps/ 

Have you tried ALCar in addition to the jherb for pain relief?  For more details read the first file (Pain relief Alternatives to Bute and Banamine) in this folder:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Pain%20Medication%20%26%20Alternatives/ 

You can get ALCar at http://mybesthorse.com/home.html  and the dosing instructions are on the website, as are the dosing instructions for the Jherb, under "product information"  

Here's a message from Dr Kellon about what ALCAR is:

You might also follow the conversation currently going on with Corrine wrt her horse Jasper.  Starts here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/193819  

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response




beverly meyer
 

Hey Lorna,
Thanks for asking.
I can't list all the conversations and threads I've read that confuse me.  Maybe 100 or so??
Maybe pretend you're a newbie and search 4 or 5 dozen Conversations for Jherb like I did and follow internal links to other items? 
Oh, here's one... on avoiding Jherb if IR/PPID is not controlled!  Yikes, Ginger's insulin is definitively not controlled, but I understand her pain may be part of the cause of high insulin which is why I'm on Jherb.  This is a bit of a Catch -22.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/193559
No need to write me back about this one example please!  I'm just responding to your request for confusing things.  Thanks for all your help and efforts. I can never believe how much amazing info is in the files!
Beverly 6/14

  


Lorna Cane
 


>I can't list all the conversations and threads I've read that confuse me.  Maybe 100 or so??

What you said originally was this:

"Old files contradict new. New products are suggested, and old disappear, etc.
Many files are from readers saying what they use rather than what Dr. 
Kellon suggested."

This is worrisome for the volunteers who try to keep everything up-to-date,and correct. If you were able to point to the Files which were contradicting each other,etc. we would make every effort to clear up the confusion.

I am thinking now,though,that you did not mean the Files, but rather Archived Messages.

If that is the case,there are indeed many things said by members which are not necessarily accurate,since people are learning as they go. There are more than likely many confusing messages by members who are learning.The place to look to clear up the confusion is the answers given by Dr. Kellon,or one of the mods/support people.

If you actually DID mean the Files contained contradictions,then my request remains the same - please help us help you by pointing them out.

We need to move on now.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

 


 


beverly meyer
 

Thank you Nancy!! This was so helpful.
I have a hard time with the files indexing, and instead end up scrolling through 10 years of messages on a keyword like Jiagulan. These links were useful and of course sent me off on another 4 hours of reading!
Beverly 6/14
Beverly Texas


Nancy C
 

Not sure if it was me that sent you to the files, but you are welcome!

When you are in the FILES section...

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files

 

....try playing around with the search box at the top of the web page.

so you could put "pain" in the window at teh top of the page and get all docs that reference pain. Or "Nitric Oxide".  Or "salt"  Or "ALCar"  or "acetyl L carnitine" or...

You get the idea.

Learning how to use the advance search button when in the message archives can cut down on the messages a bit.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: Some mares are refractory to good control of IR by the usual diet measures.  See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, Mineral Nutrition and Insulin Resistance, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 








beverly meyer
 

Oh yes Nancy, it was Maggie that helped me with links.
Thanks for your search tips. I wrote those in my file for the future.
Beverly 6/14