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Free Choice Feeding an IR Horse

Larks Tabatha
 

Hello... Lately it seems I keep running across folks (web site & customer service at Porta-Grazer and an article on Leptin Resistance by Juliet Getty PHD in Volume 17, issue 2 of Natural Horse Magazine) who is advocating that "Free-choice (hay and/or pasture) does not make a horse obese, on the contrary, restricting forage is what leads to obesity." She states that the solution is to reduce inflammation so the brain once again responds to leptin.


I feed my Compensated IR mare hay tested at 10% or less ESC+Starch in three meals a day, totaling 2% of her body weight per day, served in slow feed hay bags.  She is able to eat her hay at each feeding within 2.5 to 3 hours and acts to be famished with each meal that I come out to feed (which makes all the sense when I come out to feed at 6:30 AM when her last meal was fed at 6 PM).  She is at a healthy weight on this program.


I hope those in the know would comment on the philosophy of free choice feeding.  Could I trust that my horse would learn to self regulate on such a feeding program before she suffered any ill effects from weight gain?


Thank you in advance for your input.


Sally in N. AZ

April 2013
Nancy C
 

Hi Sally

Your mare will not self-regulate if her leptin is not controlled and will over eat.

Here's a great article by Dr Kellon.


Free Choice Feeding

 

We've had more than a few discussions on this particular approach and the author both here and on Facebook. Enjoy these:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/messages?query=getty

 

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin... - ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance | Facebook

 


and

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup/photos/pb.159957040718910.-2207520000.1432317154./814437431937531/?type=3&theater


Slow feeding of the amount of hay known to best support the horse - versus free choice feeding of unlimited amounts - is what helps bring this condition under better control. If she is finihsing her hay too fast then dividing her intake into additional bags to spread it around would help slow her down.

Making sure her minerals are tightly balanced can help too (see  link below my sig)

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: Minerals have direct effect on Insulin Resistance (IR) or its consequences. See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, Mineral Nutrition and Insulin Resistance, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 
Kerry Isherwood
 

I think the point she is trying to make is that its the "mini-fasts" that occur when forage is NOT available free-choice that is what is to be avoided bc in theory the fasting creates a detrimental insulin surge that perpetuates and can worsen IR over time (an aside, wouldn't this mechanism be similar to the Simogyi effect in diabetes mellitis?  I know its been debunked in human medicine but the academics still discuss it in small animal critical care, esp in feline d. mellitis)  so the impression I got was that she isn't so much advocating for free-choice feeding as she was trying to avoid horses having forage fasts (lesser of two evils).  However, I've found the couple of articles by Getty on the subject to be just generalized enough that the philosophy is potential dangerous to the average horseowner, IR or not.  To put it another way, I understand the point she's trying to make, but only because I already have a working understanding of practical IR management.  Its one thing to say "feed free choice hay!" but quite another to find a consistent source of safe forage that truly can be fed free choice, and that pragmatism is what is missing from Getty's approach, IMO.

FWIW,
Kerry in NY
Sept 2014
Nancy C
 

Hi Kerry

I think I need to parse this out a bit....

I can offer you quotes but don't want to appear to be piling on. Suffice to say these are just some of the things that we found to be advocated:

>>Free feeding unlimited amounts of hay - as much as the horse will eat.  If it's low "NSC" (her use of the word not mine) it will be okay. 

>>The use of muzzles will lead to stress which raises insulin and will induce laminitis.

>>That even going an hour or two without food will induce this stress. Also will lead to ulcers. Gastric emptying studies for equine endoscopy procedure has shown even after 8 hours the stomach is often not fully empty

>>Also add the use of psyllium to control IR.  Wish it were so.

I know it is r=2 but mine hang out all the time by themselves.  Just hanging out relaxing for much longer than an hour or two. Beau speant years being a Hoover.  I could not have fed even low ESC and Starch hay free choice. Not until his iron stores started to come closer to control did he reverse this. Iron overload can drive IR.

Leptin can be elevated from things other than food, so control of diagnosis would also help to control leptin resistance and a ravenous appetite.


More info about horses in the wild vs domestic and free choice feeding.
Equusite.com - Dr. Paul McGreevy on Horse Behavior - An Interview With Dr. Paul McGreevy about Equine Behavior

 


Absolutely with you that the focus should be knowing what you are feeding and why,  know what they need to maintain their best BCS, and do it via slow or trickle feeding.  Balancing minerals helps with IR as Dr Kellon shows in her proceeding on Minerals and IR. 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: Minerals have direct effect on Insulin Resistance (IR) or its consequences. See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, Mineral Nutrition and Insulin Resistance, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <kerry.isherwood@...> wrote :

 However, I've found the couple of articles by Getty on the subject to be just generalized enough that the philosophy is potential dangerous to the average horseowner, IR or not.  To put it another way, I understand the point she's trying to make, but only because I already have a working understanding of practical IR management.  Its one thing to say "feed free choice hay!" but quite another to find a consistent source of safe forage that truly can be fed free choice, and that pragmatism is what is missing from Getty's approach, IMO.

FWIW,
Kerry in NY
Sept 2014
Bonnie
 

My  13h2" pony is one of those who would not be likely to stop eating free-choice hay. I started first using haynets  with holes 1.5 inches in diameter. He quickly learned to inhale the hay from those bags. 


After experimenting, we have this system: 2 kinds of bags, one inch holes and one half inch holes.  He gets a large feeding at 9 pm in a half inch net. In the morning he gets turned out with both sizes. He pounces on the "easy" bags first, but the "challenging" bags stretch the rest of his ration out longer. He is on a paddock track so wanders from bag to bag. He is content until suppertime, eager to come in for supper in a tub, but not frantic.


He has very educated lips. Half inch bags might prove too challenging for larger animals but if introduced gradually, with other sizes to eat from, might be used by big horse owners too.


Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08

Lad IR/PPID
Nancy C
 

Wow, do I need to get away from the computer. 

That's n=2, not r=2.

Hope you all have a great weekend!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs.  See  Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

I know it is r=2 but mine hang out all the time by themselves.  Just hanging out relaxing for much longer than an hour or two. Beau speant years being a Hoover.  I could not have fed even low ESC and Starch hay free choice. Not until his iron stores started to come closer to control did he reverse this. Iron overload can drive IR.

Kerry Isherwood
 

Wait...what?  I must've misrepresented myself re: Getty -- please know that I *do not* advocate what she is saying but was trying to (potentially) elaborate on her often too-generalized approach (in the several articles I've read of hers re: IR control).

Specifically regarding the free-choice feeding, I meant to say I felt that that statement was potentially dangerous to the average reader who is new to IR (as I was at one time not too long ago; whereas now I'm a wizened old IR hag ;) 

Sorry if I implied that I was a Getty-ophile; I am not.

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014
Nancy C
 

No worries Kerry.

Thanks for the conversation.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: Insulin resistance (IR) is the failure of insulin sensitive cells to respond to “normal” levels of insulin.  See E. M. Kellon, VMD, Diagnosis of Insulin Resistance and PPID, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <kerry.isherwood@...> wrote :

Wait...what?  I must've misrepresented myself re: Getty -- please know that I *do not* advocate what she is saying but was trying to (potentially) elaborate on her often too-generalized approach (in the several articles I've read of hers re: IR control).
Kathleen Gustafson
 

The short answer to your question is, "No." You can't trust your horse to self-regulate because horses are horses and they defy logic! 

All joking aside, this formula (free choice feeding IR-leptin resistance (LR)) seems destined to fail more than most.

I too, have trouble with Getty's over-generalization and over-simplification of leptin resistance. To be sure, excessive forage restriction can be as harmful as free choice but there is no reason to go from one extreme to the other - all things in moderation. Feeding 1.5% - 2.0% body weight (or better yet, feed according to calorie needs and calories in your hay!) is moderate and I wouldn't consider that to be "restriction."

So, before I would hang my hat on free choice feeding as the solution to IR/LR, I would turn to the very best, most effective, least expensive, simply miraculous, amazing, appetite reducing method that (even more amazing) everyone agrees on (wow!) and that is...

....wait for it...

Exercise! Exercise Improves Insulin and Leptin Sensitivity in Hypothalamus of Wistar Rats

 

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO
Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Inc.
Dec 2005 - Missouri, USA
 
Teri
 

Hi Bonnie,

Where did you find the bags with 1/2 inch holes?  I have a hoover 'Fatlinger' with very educated lips. :-)  The 1 inch holes don't slow her down nearly enough!

BTW...I tried the free choice feeding from smhn on two IR greedy eaters.  Didn't work.  Quickly went back to weighing their meals.  

Teri and Stormy...and Kelsey the eating machine
Indy 2012


<<He has very educated lips. Half inch bags might prove too challenging for larger animals but if introduced gradually, with other sizes to eat from, might be used by big horse owners too.
Bonnie
 

From Econets.  I see today they are featuring a new product: heavy duty mesh.

Eco Nets - Mesh Hay Nets - Feed Horses Naturally with Net Hay Bags

 



Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08
Chanda
 

Not Bonnie,

  But Hay Pillow has 1/2" mesh available.  Slow Feeder Hay Bags - The Hay Pillow, Inc.    I have a couple for my minis in 1/2" and 3/4" and while they can get it out of the 1/2", they are less frustrated with the 3/4".

Chanda

MT 9/04

 
Mule Maid
 

CJ Alford, McNeil AR makes 1/2" hay nets. She made me some whole bale nets that work wonderfully. she will make any size you would like. With the whole bale nets, I only have to feed every three days to my EC/IR 700 pound mule.
Nancy C
 

Hi Mule maid

Please don't forget to sign your posts!

Many, many thanks.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: Standing on cement significantly reduces blood flow to the equine foot.
See R. M. Bowker, VMD, PhD, Nerves, Nerves, Nerves: Why Are They So Important To The Horse?  2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org
and
See RM Bowker, VMD, PhD, The Vascular Cushion Of The Frog What Does It Do?  2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <mulemaid@...> wrote :

CJ Alford, McNeil AR makes 1/2" hay nets. She made me some whole bale nets that work wonderfully. she will make any size you would like. With the whole bale nets, I only have to feed every three days to my EC/IR 700 pound mule.
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