Re Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question
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corrine haffner
Hi Here's my question should i re test jasper's ACTH now even though he's on doxy yet ? Maybe his current sore footed problems are do to uncontrolled ACTH?? Would stopping doxy for a week before Re testing be something to consider or is that a bad idea? would him being off doxy for a week cause a relapse problem at this point and time in treatment? He's been on doxy since march. I started a journal this morning on his pulse,lameness,how many times i apply capaisin on a day to day basis and how much he eats hay wise and ODTB in a given day. Sorry for all the questions here lately. Thank you in advance,for the help, Corrine and Jasper MN 4/2014
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corrine haffner
Hi Should i re test jasper for ACTH now? he's currently being treated for lyme dease till july. Would taking him off doxy for a week before testing be a good idea? Also would his pain level effect results?? being he is currently at a 2 1/2 today. Also he seems to be losing weight went from 1,250 to now 1,130 within about a 2 week span,he's not skinny, but can now feel ribs with ease,can't see ribs though. Have a picture in my album of how he was last year, marked summer 2014,don't want him to get like that again this year. I weight tape him every two weeks to see were he's at weight wise,trying to avoid him getting skinny again. He seems to be eating better now he finishes all his ODTB cubes up to 1.5 lbs twice a day,the finishing his cubes has happened in just the last day and a half. Also cleans up hay 14 lbs acts like he's starving now. Thank you in advance,for the help, Corrine and Jasper MN 4/2014
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Hi Corinne
I may need to leave this to others to affirm but I would not take him off the doxy. He needs to complete his treatment. Testing now will show you where he is now. The Lyme could affect his insulin levels. We would be at or about the lowest time of year for ACTH. FWIW I have tested Beau multiple times a year in and out of various kinds of pain. The labs have remained fairly consistent. Fasting and dietary indiscretions have had the biggest impact on results. ECHistory6
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: Fructans were a highly popular theory of the cause of laminitis approximately 10 years ago. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote : Hi Should i re test jasper for ACTH now? |
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corrine haffner
Hi Nancy The taking him off doxy would only be for a week before testing,then after testing, would start him back on doxy to finish the 4 month treatment. Reason to re test is to make sure his pergolide is right. So would a week off doxy effect treatment if it was re started right after blood draw? Could he relapse being off doxy for just a week? Relapsing would be my biggest concern,reason i'am asking,my other concern is the appetite change he's turned into a eating machine. His appetite has gone from being picky, to thinking he's starving just in the last 48 hours he's searching for every blade of grass that pops up in corral. He's lost weight but with the way he's eating he'll gain it back plus more. He searching for every spec of hay that drops on ground,eats his 1.5 lbs of cubes and wants more stands and nickers to me begging to be fed again. I try to keep him with hay all the time but hard to keep up when i only have two nets,and have to soak before feeding. So is this big change in appetite a concern or not?? Thank you, Corrine and Jasper MN 4/2014
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Kerry Isherwood
....."Should i re test jasper for ACTH now? he's currently being treated for lyme dease till july. Would taking him off doxy for a week before testing be a good idea? "..... >>> In general it is never advised to interrupt or curtail any course of antibiotics. But b/c Jasper is a unique & precarious case I defer to Dr. Kellon or mods. I will, however, offer this from personal experience: I, myself, am currently taking doxycycline for lyme and before last holiday weekend forgot to renew my Rx. I had an immediate backslide into 95% of the awful symptoms that had been eradicated while on doxy. Although I'm not a horse, I would never wish that backward plunge of agony on any species! ....."Also he seems to be losing weight went [...] he's not skinny, but can now feel ribs with ease,can't see ribs though. ".... >>> You are describing the textbook definition of a 5 (poss 6) on the Henneke body scale. That's exactly where you want to be, IMO. Thinner is always better on top of sore feet. ....." Also cleans up hay 14 lbs acts like he's starving now."..... >>> This new-ish observation coupled with his very recent history of consuming >25 gallons of water per day would make me (again, IMO) want to test his insulin, glucose and leptin. If there's no archival data on doxy affecting insulin/glucose/leptin, I would speak to Cornell's consulting vet in the endocrinology lab (or have my vet do it) to ascertain if there is any known cases of doxy skewing insulin/glucose/leptin results while a horse is on chronic treatment. Living the hotbed of lyme country I would almost guarantee someone, somewhere, has had to submit these tests while a horse has been in treatment for chronic lyme. If you or your vet is not comfortable calling Cornell, I will be glad to do it, as my hosp has an acct and god knows they've almost given me an inside direct line because of all the business I've given them with my 2 IRs, one being very difficult to control. Anyway, normally I wouldn't write to offer my half-cocked ideas brimming with hubris but I know you are having so much difficulty getting Jasper well that I'm hoping my advice might catch the eye of someone and get a helpful dialog going. I'm particularly interested in why he would be drinking so much water.... Best wishes, Kerry, LVT in NY Sept 2014 |
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>Anyway, normally I wouldn't write to offer my half-cocked ideas brimming with hubris but I know you are having so much difficulty getting Jasper well that I'm hoping my advice might catch the eye of someone and get a helpful dialog going. I'm particularly interested in why he would be drinking so much water.... Hardly half-baked at all,Kerry !! I agree with the approach you would take,and concerns about drinking 25 gallons of water daily. FWIW. Lorna
in Ontario,Canada
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corrine haffner
Hi Some where in the archives i have a post from Dr Kellon on waiting to test him till off doxy if i recall right. Think it will skew the test results, i'll see if i can fine that post. No i don't want him to relapse with lyme,he's been through enough already. Kerry i have no problem calling cornell obviously i'll have to wait till monday. Thank you, Corrine and Jasper MN 4/2014
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corrine haffner
Hi Found post that says to hold off on testing till treatment is done,post number is 192615 post is from Dr Kellon. So my question was kinda not even a good one,had that anwser back in march.Guess my frustration is driving my questions,in hopes of getting jasper well. Thank you, Corrine and Jasper MN 4/2014
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Good job Corinne. I obviously did not remember that post.
The joys of knowing message archive search! Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference. Conference Proceedings & Recordings
---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote : Hi Found post that says to hold off on testing till treatment is done,post number is 192615 post is from Dr Kellon. Thank you, Corrine and Jasper MN 4/2014
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corrine haffner
Hi Nancy Thank you,i kept all the messages in my email so didn't have to look to far to find that post,i had kinda forgot about that post. Till i started going back a re reading them. What can i do to keep him from gaining a whole bunch of weight?? He pretty much is eating all the time now scarfs down hay & cubes like he's starving. Do i let him be without hay for several hours a day? or do i keep him with it 24/7?? if i can even keep the nets with hay that long. Working on switching him over to all ODTB cubes, now he's eating shouldn't be to hard to do. Also once switched to cubes,i'am afraid he'll be searching for every small blade of grass he can find,or just breaking out of corral to get out on pasture. He already attempted that yesterday,got tangled up in wire so never got totally out,had to cut him out of his mess. Guess his pain level of 2 isn't stopping him being naughty. Thank you, Corrine and Jasper MN 4/2014
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