hay analysis, better link

Kerry Isherwood


Hi, Kerry. Instead of the file name, how about a link to the enclosing case history file where you uploaded it? I find nothing in EC History 8, and your folder is empty... or so Yahoo says.

I've never seen Ca:P upside down, so I'm curious. The only hay that ever analyzed with a perfect Ca: P ratio  turned out to be contaminated with cow paddies. You can read about phosphorus ratios in animal manures here: http://animalwaste.okstate.edu/bmps/f-2249web.pdf

Cass for Cayuse and Satra
Sonoma County, Calif Oct 12

Kerry Isherwood

The hay analysis is in Pinky's folder, labelled as horse 1. Hopefully this link works:


Ugh, its still the file name. I cant figure out how to add link from my file. Sorry...

Heres the brief #s
Calcium 0.25%
Phosphorus 0.32%
From the "as sampled" column.

Thought that ratio was curious

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014

corrine haffner

Hi Kerry

Your hay analysis is on echistory8.

Corrine And Jasper
MN 4/2014

Lorna Cane

>Your hay analysis is on echistory8.

 Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002

*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*



tara sullivan

Hi Kerry,
The soil in our region of NY is usually quite acidic and  always in need of lime/calcium amendment.  Some areas also don't have much top soil and organic matter tends to be low as well.  These are not conditions for good plant growth-plants for hay, that is.  Moss, weeds, locust and cedar tree saplings, etc...do just fine!  Lime/calcium amendments take years to establish...there are different sources of lime, with different breakdown times and it takes tons per acre to do the job.  And they need to be replenished on a regular basis...like 2 tons per acre every 3 years.  Some growers choose to skip this step and just throw down chemical fertilizer in the spring to pump up what grass and forage plants are growing in the field.  These are usually some combination of nitrogen phosphorous and potassium-like Triple 19.  This may be the reason for the inverted ratio.  Also, chemical fertilizers exacerbate acidic soils....so if a grower uses them they really need to double down on their lime application.

Tara from NY

Kerry Isherwood

Fascinating! Thanks so much Tara! I suspect the 'quickie fertilizer' was the culprit. I know the grower, he's a 'lawn guy' who decided to start making hay for extra money. Ill try to ascertain what fertilizer(s) & methods were used.

One of my IRs boards at the grower's farm so this first cut is the 'house hay', but fortunately he only eats 2-3 flakes/day (less than 5lbs). However, definitely not a hay I want to pay for!

Thanks for the responses & for correcting my faulty link

Kerry in NY
Sept NY

Nancy C

Hi Kerry

A great resource for your hay guy is the  Cornell University Cooperative Extension

Cornell Soil Health

Their outreach looks to have good programs/publications.


My grower and I have worked hard testing and amending the soil here and it's had a very positive impact on hay quality, better major mineral blance, less iron and manganese.  Less need to buy minerals to balance.  Grower has gotten average 30 percent higher yield.

Win. Win. Win. Win.

Testing soil after crop is in allows for pH amendment and some fertilizer to start to get where it needs to go over the winter.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: Minerals have direct effect on Insulin Resistance (IR) or its consequences. See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, Mineral Nutrition and Insulin Resistance, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.


Kerry Isherwood

Nancy, thanks for the info, thats an excellent site to pass on. Now, how to tactfully broach the subject with the grower....

Really goes to show how the 'looks' of a hay bale can be so deceptive. This stuff is so green, & so dry, it looks like the beautiful loads that come in from the western states later in the year -- the enormous bales weigh next to nothing and literally explode when cut apart into a gorgeous sweet-smelling cascade of hay heaven -- we joke that we want to roll around in it at the end of each day bc it most definitely smells better than we do...but i digress

Thx again! Just wish I paid as much attention to my own diet as I do to my horses'...

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014

Nancy C

My approach was:

"Can I go over these hay test results with you? I'm spending a fortune on minerals. May I take and pay for a soil test and then we could go over the results?"

The first year I paid for fertilizing my swath of hay.  Never had to do that again but not everyone would be willing to do this.

I'm a wayward master gardener, knew we could do better, and was 99% certain he would be happy with results. 

Cooperative Extension folks are wonderful in freely sharing info.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT:  Fructans were a highly popular theory of the cause of laminitis approximately 10 years ago. See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.


---In EquineCushings@..., <kerry.isherwood@...> wrote :

Nancy, thanks for the info, thats an excellent site to pass on. Now, how to tactfully broach the subject with the grower....


By coincidence, my contaminated hay had comparable percentages of Ca (0.28%) and P (0.3%) to your hay.  My seat of the pants tabulation shows that the major mineral ratios aren't upside down because ODTBC supplies ample calcium.That's NOT to say that major mineral ratios are within the tight ranges recommended for IR horses. And I didn't include 4 lbs of BP on the back of the envelope.

With no case history for one horse and no weight for Pinky, it's hard to know if your your horses' diets are ideally balanced. JMO that you'd learn a lot from a diet evaluation of the ODTBC, hay and 4 lbs of dry BP you feed compared to an optimal diet based on your IR horses' work load, age and ideal weight. 

Cass for Cayuse and Satra
Sonoma County, CA Oct 12

---In EquineCushings@..., <windybriars@...> wrote :

 hay analysis :

 Both of my IRs are on 15 lbs ODTB/day, plus 1oz flax (TC Omega Max), VIt E Oil (Uckele), and 1oz iodized salt (more on hot days).  The above grass hay is given for boredom, and I've been soaking it until I got the analysis back.  The amt eaten of the soaked grass hay by each IR is less than 5lbs/day.  Im guessing b/c the hay cubes are the bulk of the diet that I shouldn't be too concerned abt the inverse Ca:Phos on the baled hay -- more that I'm curious what would cause an imbalance as such?

Kerry Isherwood

Thank you Cass for your response, your contaminated hay ratios are interesting. Ill get my CHs updated; the mare's folder *had* an extremely detailed Word doc that followed the template format plus room for her extensive bloodwork, but it appears to have disappeared :((( damn Neo! Also very strange, is that the old format is sometimes found in Pinkys folder, at other times only the new template is there, which is bare. What could possibly make that occur?!?

Anyway, thanks again for your input, very interesting & helpful!

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014

Tori Cullins

Could not get this pdf link to work.... Could anyone else?
Tori and Orion in Hawaii
April 2014