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  2. Need link to IR calculator again....

Need link to IR calculator again....

Dee Kenville <ndeewoods@...>
 

Hi.
I got fresh tests on Brennivin and another horse, Shasta, who has no case history yet.  I can't get the IR calculator I have to work, can I have fresh link again so I can see if his numbers are any better?
Thanks!
Dee Kenville, Santa Cruz, CA
takarri@...
 

I'm having the same  trouble as well Dee- link won't load.

Try this as a temp link and see if it works for you


Pauline & Spur

Sth West Vic

Australia Aug 07

EC Primary Response

http://tinyurl.com/7qbdyas

 

Hi.
I got fresh tests on Brennivin and another horse, Shasta, who has no case history yet.  I can't get the IR calculator I have to work, can I have fresh link again so I can see if his numbers are any better?

 
takarri@...
 

Answering my own question now- the temp link won't calculate. Sorry.


Pauline & Spur

Sth West Vic

Australia Aug 07

EC Primary Response

http://tinyurl.com/7qbdyas


 
Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Dee,

Here is a link to the Diagnosis page of the ECIRHorse.org website. Scroll down to the portion on IR and the formulas are there - you can do the calculations manually to get the results.

http://www.ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diagnosis

Apparently Neo is in one of its ever-so-helpful snit modes.

Lavinia,Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

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ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

In the files is an Excel version.  It is older ( a little less up to date) than the on line version for those that need numbers right now but are math challenged.  Go here and look for GI Ratio Basic-RISQI-MIRG Calc.xls .  
- ​LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario

ECIR Archivist 03/2004

 

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Nancy C
 

Have written to our member Mary Lou about the online version.  Will try to get the xls updated shortly but will not be until next week, unless one of the originators can  do so before me.

This is not a NEO problem.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


What are the best diagnostic tests available for IR and PPID and why? Join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available. http://www.nolaminitis.org/…/program-schedule/guest-speakers
Dee Kenville <ndeewoods@...>
 

Thanks Lavinia.  I am a bonehead and could not do it myself.  The instructions don't seem to work for me.  This is what it says:
Based on human studies and data from our group member's horses, we have been using the G:I ratio for many years now. It's very easy to do. Simply divide the glucose result in mg/dL by insulin in uIU/mL. (If your insulin is reported in pmol/L you have to convert it to uIU/mL by dividing by 7.1.)

But...my numbers  on Bren are Insulin 62.8 pU/mL and Glucose 87 mg/dl 
and for Shasta  Insulin 9.1 pU/mL and Glucose 83 mg/dL  

So...wasn't sure how to do it since my little alphabet letters don't match their instructions. :(

Dee in Santa Cruz, CA

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20Kenville/

 

Bren links to pics


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/127898455 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/127898455 
lars_a_swe
 

---In EquineCushings@..., <ndeewoods@...> wrote :

But...my numbers  on Bren are Insulin 62.8 pU/mL and Glucose 87 mg/dl 
and for Shasta  Insulin 9.1 pU/mL and Glucose 83 mg/dL  

- - - - - -

Your insulin numbers can’t be correct. p stands for pico and means 10-12. To convert pU/mL to µIU/mL (or mIU/L) you’ll have to multiply by 10-6, i.e. I = 62.8 x 10-6 µIU/mL which is an unrealistic low number for insulin.

My guess is that your insulin numbers are in µIU/mL and not in pU/mL.
 
Lars
Sweden July 2008
lars_a_swe
 

---In EquineCushings@..., <ndeewoods@...> wrote :

If your insulin is reported in pmol/L you have to convert it to uIU/mL by dividing by 7.1.

- - - - - -

Regarding the conversion factor for insulin there seems to be a disagreement. The American Diabetes Association recommends the conversion factor 6.0 while the American Medical Association recommends the conversion factor 6.945.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/33/6/e83.full

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dme.12337/abstract

Lars
Sweden July 2008
Dee Kenville <ndeewoods@...>
 

Ugh.
Well at this point I am just going to accept my vet's interpretation that they both look normal since I have no math skills to interpret them myself.  
 My previously laminitic cushings horse, Brennivin,  is completely sound and we are starting his rehab on hills now.  My other horse, Shasta, is ouchy no matter what I do and her ACTH was just tested at 25.9 which the vet says is fine. So I am going to put front shoes on her as a diagnostic tool.  She has never had shoes in her life and she is 17 but I have tried 3 pairs of boots and they don't fit right so I am going to try shoes and see if her ouchiness goes away.  She is already on teff hay, magnesium, E, Flax etc.....
I have been filtering her water for lead.  I suspect Lymes could be a problem but my vet won't test so I have to find a vet that will. In the meantime I am going to try shoes....
Dee in Santa Cruz, CA
lars_a_swe
 

---In EquineCushings@..., <ndeewoods@...> wrote :

Ugh.
Well at this point I am just going to accept my vet's interpretation that they both look normal since I have no math skills to interpret them myself.  

- - - - -
If your insulin numbers are in µIU/ml (check your lab report again and/or call the lab and ask) you will get the following results:

BREN:

G:I = 87/62.8 = 1.38

RISQI = 1/SQR(62.8) = 0.126

MIRG= [800 – 0.30×(62.8 -50)2]/(87 – 30) = 13.2

A G:I ratio less than 4.5 indicates severe IR so does a RISQI value less than 0.22. Bren is severe IR.

SHASTA:

G:I = 83/9.1 = 9.1

RISQI = 1/SQR(9.1) = 0.33

A G:I ratio between 4.5 and 10 indicates compensated IR while a RISQI value greater than 0.32 is normal. Shasta is borderline IR.

However, check the unit of the insulin numbers with your lab.

Lars
Sweden July 2008
Nancy C
 

Hi Dee

A lot of us have found out the hard way the "looking normal" can be a false indicator.

thank you for the math Lars.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


To learn more about the variables in diagnosing PPID and IR to prevent or manage lamintis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8.

13 hours of continuing education credit available.

Guest Speakers

 



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---In EquineCushings@..., <spottythehorse@...> wrote :



- - - - -
If your insulin numbers are in µIU/ml (check your lab report again and/or call the lab and ask) you will get the following results:

BREN:

A G:I ratio less than 4.5 indicates severe IR so does a RISQI value less than 0.22. Bren is severe IR.

SHASTA:

A G:I ratio between 4.5 and 10 indicates compensated IR while a RISQI value greater than 0.32 is normal. Shasta is borderline IR.
Dee Kenville <ndeewoods@...>
 

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Dee,

Do you have any pictures of Shasta's feet posted anywhere? Have you ever had any xrays done to diagnose the possible causes of her being ouchy?  I've only found Bren's. If not, you are welcome to post some in either ECHistory8 (along with a case history for her) or on ECHoof. If the trim isn't correct, shoes are only going to be a band-aid that may end up making the situation worse over time because they are being added to an already out-of-whack trim. If the trim is proper.

Yes, that ACTH of 25.9 is fine but has it ever been tested during the seasonal rise period to see what it's doing at that point? If she is on an IR diet along with Bren then it may also be that she is responding well to that so the insulin/glucose numbers you are getting are reflecting that (thanks for doing the math, Lars). That she is on the cusp of compensated IR/not IR indicates management is something to pay close attention to.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

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