Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up


corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Thank you Dr kellon, i had some Equi tussin for my mare,so i gave jasper a dose seems to help with coughing.
He is a little more better today,not coughing as much breathing is real close to normal. His temp was normal this  morning,will check again tonight at feeding time.

He's extremely sore footed and very stiff moving seems to help if i hand walk him for 5 minutes going his  pace very slow. 


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

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Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 




I don't think this is Strangles related because the minimum time for symptoms to show after exposure is around 3 days and he had trouble before then **but** can't completely rule out that it isn't flared up because of fighting off Strangles.  He could also have a bronchitis from some other bacteria on top of the heaves. Keep taking his temperature and if not improving still by next week ask for a CBC.

If you can locate an "old timer" equine or cattle vet you could ask about the sodium iodide injection I mentioned before, and oil of camphor injection. Oldies but goodies!  Could also try 3 to 4 oz 2 to 3 times daily of:

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=e10c3252-6644-4467-862f-9f8b40722387

Give after eating.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
 


Lorna Cane
 




>............if jasper could say thank you i'am sure he would. 


He's saying it,Corrine. He's fighting the good fight.






Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup














corrine haffner
 


<<<Spoken like a true warrior.

I can feel about 12,000 heads in the room, nodding in agreement .>>>


Lorna, you really made my day it sure helps to know i'v got so many people on here who truly care. I'v done nothing but ask for help the last few months.  

And i'll be asking for yet more advice still have lots going on with jasper...I'am truly grateful for all the help, if jasper could say thank you i'am sure he would. 


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

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Lorna Cane
 



>To be honest it hasn't been easy for me to make the necessary changes in diet and 

firing the farrier. Biggest one is speaking up when vet want's to give medicine that 

jasper shouldn't have.



Spoken like a true warrior.

I can feel about 12,000 heads in the room, nodding in agreement .




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup








corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Thanks kerry for the help,i barrowed a fly sheet from a friend to see if it would help,before i go buying one. No never have used the absorbine ultrasheild in the black bottle,will have to give it a try.Not sure he'll keep on fly leg protectors though,loves to take his leg wraps off.

He has improved a bit more today not a heavey as he was,and he's been in barn over 24 hours. Do have a big fan to help move the air. 

I'am trying real hard here to get things right for him,but its slow to happen think were moving in the right direction. I read on here a lot trying to learn all i can then put it to use for jasper,then i ask a ton of questions.

Thank you again this group is great,i'v learned so much and i'am still learning. To be honest it hasn't been easy for me to make the necessary changes in diet and firing the farrier. Biggest one is speaking up when vet want's to give medicine that jasper shouldn't have.


 Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014

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Kerry Isherwood
 

Hi Corrine,

As for bug battling, you could try a fly sheet and/or the mesh leg fly protectors, I don't use the former but i do like the latter on the TB I take care of that is a constant foot stomper.  He lives out 24/7. 

Everyone has their favorite fly spray, but if you haven't tried Absorbine Ultrashield in the black bottle, I find its the only one that works, on all three of my 24/7 outsiders.  In the worst of bug season I apply it twice a day, but it does work (the TB still fly stomps out of habit, so I still use the mesh leg wraps in addition, which def helps). 

My childhood pony had severe COPD, and I know how difficult it is to deal with, esp when humidity rises.  Keep your chin up, you have many friends here for support--that's all I can say...

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014


corrine haffner
 

Hi Suzanne

You have a great idea,problem is the bugs here are really bad right now during the day horse flies,deer flies,then the house like flies that bite. I turn him out about 8pm and try to leave him out as long as possible in the mornings.

He has improved a little today but he didn't go out last night,he was to foot sore so went down right outside barn door,his way of saying nope can't do this mom. 

He needs his feet trimmed his toes are to long and his heels are also to long,so that's not helping him at all. I tried to trim him yesterday he just can't hold up feet. Try to get him while he's down and he get back up.

Thank you very much.


 Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014

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Suzanne Mansolilli
 

Hi Corinne,

Don't know if this idea is possible to implement at your place, but when one of my horses had heaves and I was at wit's end to try to save her, I portioned off a part of a dry lot w/shade and put her outside.  She had been in my "barn" that didn't even have solid walls,with wood shavings as bedding and pea gravel outside the stalls--totally clean and open-air-- but she must have been sensitive to something in there b/c when I put her outside, she got better very quickly.

Not that you don't have enough on your plate at the moment...

SuzanneM & Monty

Western Colorado — July 2014

Photo Album: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1794323561

CH: ECHistory8

 



corrine haffner
 

 Hi 

Yes that was same stuff vet injected joints with i went back and looked at bill,good thing i said no, i'll check with the group first. 

Didn't do vaccine either, vet thought i should vaccinate both horses because of exposure to strangles,i said i would wait,other gelding had strangles before,so not to worried about him. As far as neighbors horses its up to them to do what they think is right,i was up front with them on it and that's all i can do.

I wasn't told these horses i got for training had be exposed to strangles prior to coming to my place,boarded horse that left was exposed also,i told her owner ,so didn't hide a thing from anyone involved. I had to refuse taking in more horses to train because of this strangles deal. So out quite a bit of $$$ now oh well life goes on.

He still having a heck of a time breathing labored and coughing,doing what Dr kellon suggested giving 2 oz of salt a day. Doing the vicks vapor rub,on throatlatch and in nostrils. Did give an extra scoop of Lung EQ he's over a 1000 lbs he currently weight tapes at 1,130. The 2 scoops of Lung EQ are for a 1000 lb horse,so figured another scoop shouldn't hurt him??  I don't know what else to do for him,he sounds terrible.

Having to syringe it down him has totally quit eating the cubes now,eats hay and drinks a ridiculous amounts of water & floods his stall with pee. 

 Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014

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Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Corrine,

Triamcinolone is a long-acting glucocorticoid that can be used intra-muscularly and/or intra-articularly so good thing you didn't have the shot as that could have precipitated another laminitis episode. Wasn't that what the vet injected Jasper's joint with? Obviously, it's a delicate balance as steroids are some of the best meds to control breathing issues but causing laminits/founder is a pretty big negative side effect. More here:

http://equimed.com/drugs-and-medications/reference/triamcinolone

You shouldn't give vaccines to a compromised horse so giving a Strangles vaccine to Jasper wouldn't be a good idea. The neighbor's horses are a whole 'nuther story and they need to make an informed decision based on what is the best practice for their herd.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Vet came out no not dealing with strangles its a heave attack,no he didn't do a blood test for strangles. Did want to give triamcinolone,said it would keep jasper from having heave trouble for 3 months. 

No i didn't have the shot given, i don't know what it is or what side effects there are. So is the triamcinolone safe to use on a PPID horse.??  I never thought to ask vet what it was DUH..

We are only out 4 days on him being exposed to strangles,still no fever no swollen lymph nodes and no snotty nose. What about giving the intranasal vaccine?? would it stop a possible strangles outbreak,neighbors horses are at high risk,they share my fence line with my horses. 


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

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Lesley Fraser
 

I think the incubation period for strangles is usually around 7 to 14 days, but apparently linked cases can have a gap of around 3 weeks between outbreaks. Has the vet carried out a strangles blood test on Jasper?

Good grief - you and Jasper are really going through it at the moment.

Hugs from us.

Lesley & Omar
2012, UK


corrine haffner
 

He's having a tough time humidity is up tonight to 89%,did the vicks again he's had two doses of albuterol 10 ml each. still coughing a lot, breathing is close to normal,his coughing is making him lose interest in eating.

He sounds congested when he coughs, i called vet before they closed said he'd come out in morning if he wasn't better.My mare never sounded congested when she had heave flare ups,so i wonder if its something else other then heaves??  He's got thick white snot running out his nose tonight,maybe he's clearing out mucus?? 

When exposed to strangles how long is the incubation period?? Think its been like 3 days or so,he was in contact with these horses who got strangles. Shared fence line.


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

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corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Gave him the Albuterol  syrup 10 ml only very little improvement in breathing and coughing. Got some vicks vapor rub put that in both nostrils and on his throat latch area,see if that helps at all. Maybe he's getting sick with strangles??? 

Has a nasal discharge but it's thick white stuff. Thank you Dr kellon..


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

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corrine haffner
 

Hi 
He is over a 1000 lbs weighs 1,130.Can hear rattling, wheezing when i put my ear near his nose...
Was humid and hot for about a week, also had horses in for training that got sick with strangles,they are now gone home. He's not showing signs of sickness no fever no thick yellow snot. He's not been getting 2 oz of salt a day won't eat out of feed,most he'll eat out of feed is an 1oz a day. I'll syringe the other 1oz into him then. Maybe he's coming down with strangles?? other horses though didn't have labored breathing so not sure strangles is his problem?? 

He does have thick whitish snot that drains out of his nose every so often when he puts his head down.Still labored breathing this morning and coughing,will give him a dose of albuterol here see if that helps him.

I'v maximized environment control no straw no hay stored in horse barn,all feed is soaked, stall bedded in wood shavings. I try and keep him outside as much as possible,right now though horse flies are bad so he's in 12 hours a day. 


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

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Kerry Isherwood
 

...."His breathing still isn't normal ,still labored and coughing,so could i give albuterol a long with lung EQ ?? He had been doing really well till about a week ago."....

Corrine, does this timeframe coincide with the strangles outbreak at your place?
Just a thought,
Kerry in NY
Sept 2014


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


--In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote :

Jasper's having alot of issues with heave flare ups he's on lung EQ was doing 1 scoop a day went up to 2 scoops 4 days ago. His breathing still isn't normal.....

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Horses that are symptomatic are going to need the 2 scoops/day.  That is for up to a weight of 1000 pounds so if he's heavier, use more.


If you have maximized environment control (no straw or hay in the barn, wood or paper bedding, all hay and meals thoroughly wet), a big trigger is often heavy, hot, humid air.  No much you can do about that without an air conditioner. Yes, you can also use albuterol.


Another big issue often overlooked is mucus.  It's absolutely essential to maintain generous salt intake to keep mucus moving:


Sodium chloride increases the ciliary transportability of cystic fibrosis and bronchiectasis sputum on the mucus-depleted bovine trachea.


Chloride in particular is important:


https://books.google.com/books?id=hRoRff4PH6wC&pg=PA335&lpg=PA335&dq=chloride+lung+mucus&source=bl&ots=6Kh1y3DtRc&sig=siAkwGOg8oDMHd4ZrFiQueN2G88&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TdSTVbmgA8qXsAW54Y64Dw&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=chloride%20lung%20mucus&f=false


Make sure you get at least 2 oz/day of salt into him, syringing it in if you have to.


Liberal application of Vicks to the nostrils and the throatlatch area can also help keep mucus thin.


If you continue to have issues and your veterinarian's exam reveals obvious wheezing and/or rattling mucus, inquire about using intravenous sodium iodide to break up the mucus.  It's very effective.


Eleanor in Pa

www.drkellon.com

EC Co-owner

Feb 2001



Lorna Cane
 


>Jasper's having alot of issues with heave flare ups 


What's the weather like?

Humidity ?


Has anything changed since your last CH update in May?



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





corrine haffner
 

Hi 


Jasper's having alot of issues with heave flare ups he's on lung EQ was doing 1 scoop a day went up to 2 scoops 4 days ago. His breathing still isn't normal ,still labored and coughing,so could i give albuterol a long with lung EQ ??  He had been doing really well till about a week ago.


Called vet he didn't seem to think it was necessary to come out,said something is triggering his heaves right now. Can i give more then 2 scoops of the lung EQ ?? says on directions up to 2 scoops.


Searched the Archives about lung EQ and if more then 2 scoops can be given,couldn't find anything.Also searched Archives about using Albuterol and lung EQ together found nothing on it.


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

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