A conversation concerning natural, whole foods came up on Dr Kellon's NRCPlus course, specifically concerning the use of one product being for an IR pony as a magic bullet. Senior ECIR member and ECIR nonprofit Research Director Kathleen wrote this great explanation that outlines this issues with many over-the-counter products and the marketing hype.
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Horse People: What’s in that “Natural” Product?

A few years ago, I read the ingredients on a bag of Cheetos. One in particular caught my eye, “Ancient Sea Minerals.” OOOOOooo! That had to be good, right? Natural, ancient, from the sea. It turned out to be nothing more than calcium carbonate – the very same stuff our farm sits on – the ancient sea bed, complete with fossilized coral, mollusks, and other prehistoric sediment. I guess I could brag that our hay is grown on a “bed of an ancient sea” and that these “ancient sea minerals” enrich the grass naturally, yada-yada… you catch my drift. I mean, it is true. The analysis shows it, too. Hays in the Midwest are typically calcium rich – no surprise given where they’re grown.

This brings me to a recent review of an equine product that is marketed as a Multi Vitamin-Mineral Nutrition, a “Complete Whole Food Supplement” that contains a lot of nuts, seeds, fruits, etc. that would cost about a dollar a day to supplement. Knowing what I know from the tens of thousands of hay samples in the Equi-Analytical database plus several hundred of my own, the first thing I looked for was whether this supplement would fill the most common mineral deficiencies for zinc and copper. The minimum RDA for copper for an 1100 lb horse is 100 milligrams per day and for zinc, 400 milligrams/day. If fed at 2% body weight in forage/day – 22 lbs or 10 kg – the majority of hays are deficient for these two minerals, providing on average 80 mg of copper and 250 mg of zinc. Over time, these chronic deficiencies show up as rough, sun-bleached hair coats, and notably poor hoof quality. Anyway, back to that whole food supplement. A check of the guaranteed analysis shows that it has 15 ppm cooper and 50 ppm zinc. Does that tell you whether or not it meets basic nutrition needs? Of course not, because most people can’t translate ppm (parts per million) to milligrams in their head.

A quick method is to understand the PPM is equal to milligrams per kilogram. If there are 15 ppm of copper, that’s 15 milligrams per kilogram. How much is a kilogram? 2.2 lbs. Let’s pretend your forage is average and provides 80 milligrams of copper a day. You’re still short 20 milligrams. If you were going to try to make up the difference, to reach the bare minimum to prevent a frank mineral deficiency, you would need to feed, not the recommended 1 ounce serving, but nearly THREE POUNDS of this product per day just to meet your copper needs.

So what are you getting in a 1 ounce, $1.00/day serving? Some bananas, apples, sunflower seeds, oranges, cabbage, and some feel-goodies from going natural. What aren’t you getting – well, more correctly – what isn’t your horse getting? They’re still not getting what they need to correct the chronic frank mineral deficiencies. A 1 ounce serving contains 0.43 milligrams of copper and 1.4 milligrams of zinc. Look again. You need 100, you get less than 1/2 milligram of copper. You need 400, you get 1.4 milligrams of zinc. It costs 4 cents/day to supplement the correct amount of copper and zinc that will benefit your horse tremendously. Don’t fall for ad claims and pretty buckets. If you want to feed your horse nuts and berries, then do it, but make sure they get the trace minerals they need!
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In addition to not meeting the needs of the equine, most of you know  already that the  ingredients in the above product would not be appropriate for an IR equine.

I know Kathleen would love to answer any questions. 

Lots more like this is in the message archives, the files and will be discussed in depth at teh NO Laminitis! Conference, November 6-8, 2015, Georgetown, Texas. www.nolaminitis.org

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


To learn more about how diagnosis, diet, trim and exercise all come together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available. http://www.nolaminitis.org/…/program-schedule/guest-speakers

Nancy, I also said I felt Jherb and Alcar were helping and that she really perked up with this product.
The key ingredient, blue green spirulina, is approved and recommended in the archives. This blue green is in a base of seeds and dried foods in a vacuum packed opaque package.
I only mentioned Optimum EQ after another student asked about Dr. De Paolo's Personal Supplement based on their Hair Analysis. Being the only student in the group who has actually purchased and used his personal supplement, I wrote one sentence that "I did not find the personal supplement to work for me and have been very happy instead with BioStar Optimum EQ".
There followed a storm of emails to me from 3 different moderators about how I was being deceived, hiding critical info from the case history, putting my horse at risk and many other comments too intense to process.
At no point did I suggest anyone else stop their programs or even add blue green algae.
You said the product had minimal vitamins and minerals, and was not worth $1 a day for a teaspoon of seeds, dried vegetables and fruit. But antioxidants such as bioflavonoids and blue green are a whole other class of food, containing hundreds of micronutrients. They cannot be quantified as milligrams of zinc or copper and thus appear worthless if that is all you are looking for. They contain food-based micronutrients as well as traces of minerals and vitamins.
As I clearly stated, I am not using Optimum EQ as a replacement for mineral balancing.
I know the 3 of you sending me 4 days worth of emails meant to help, but frankly it was a harrowing experience after merely mentioning a product whose main ingredient blue green is approved, as is the seeds base which partially replaces her other flax.
I note that you title this thread Natural Foods. Phyto Quench and MovEase are are also natural foods containing primarily antioxidants. I feel our animals need natural food-based nutrients they might have procured while foraging.
As I said in that prolonged thread on NRC course, I have been searching a long time for a supplement like this. This is a reputable company, not a Walgreen's super special. They have products properly vacuum packed, unlike other firms selling you a baggie of stuff that will oxidize in daylight.
My vet recommended this to me and has used it for years. It is not multi-level.
I do thank you all for the well-meaning efforts to protect me from scams.
I carry products from over 75 professional grade companies in my clinic (not grocery store grade) but preferred to trust BioStar which specializes in equine, not human nutrients.
Beverly 6/14
Beverly Texas

Beverly,

The crux of the whole recent matter on the NRCPlus board is as simple as this:

The proven science utilized by this group for treating/preventing laminitis is not by quantitative adding to the diet until success is acheived -- it is in fact the converse, the elimination of known problematic agents and then discovering what *your* horse's individual triggers are (different for each horse). 

So its not the BioWhatever product that is so offensive; its the fact that you are not understanding the above simple concept and not including all foodstuffs used in your CH.  We are just trying to help you help your horse, but by not following given outlines, then all that is happening is a demoralizing perpetuation of your mare's issues.  It is that simple. 


Kerry in NY
Sept 2014

For those who aren't familiar with the product Beverly is talking about,here it is:

Does that mean 40% carbs? I thought bananas were high carb?Sally, Elkton,MD member since 2009

Bingo, Corrine.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


To learn more about the impact of fructan, understanding and diagnosing PPID and IR, nutrition, the foot, how it all comes together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available. http://www.nolaminitis.org/…/program-schedule/guest-speakers

So glad you spoke up Beverly. So many questions…..however…..get ready for more harrowing experience.

The issue that keeps getting ducked is that when you do write in for help, you do not give all the details, either on herbs you are giving, DePaolo special mix or BioStar and who knows what else. Never came up.  If you can show me where it did, I'll stand corrected. 

The help you have sought over the last eight or so months, from this list alone, has been related to things far beyond the “management issues” you suggested you have asked.   For example: the horse was starving, should the horse have pergolide, how much pergolide, why is the IR still out of control (a biggie), why is she still laminitic, why will she not pick up her feet, why is her coat so bad, what is the mucus on her manure and many more but I don't have time to go look.

As stated previously, volunteers spend their very precious discretionary hours helping members who are asked for one simple thing in return: be straight with us so we can help you. As a nutritional adviser you should be requiring the same of your clients, yet this request was never heard or followed for the benefit of your horse.  At the very least, it is very odd.

Yes, the group does recommend spirulina, which can be purchased separately. It does not replace the benefits of balancing the diet. Diet balancing alone will provide much of what you need for your horse. 

If spirulina is the key ingredient in Bio-Star, why is it listed after Whole Oranges, Bananas, Whole Apples, Organic Hemp Seeds, Whole Carrots, Organic Oat Bran, L. acidophilus Fermentation Product, Grey Sea Salt, Organic Coconut, Organic Coconut Oil,  and Yeast Flakes???

Spirulina is not a cheap ingredient.  At the very least, I would be asking how much is contained in the one tablespoon of this product you indicated you are giving her.

Yes, the group does recommend some supplements that can be termed "natural".  PQ and Mov-ease are miles above this product in terms of what is delivered.

The group does not recommend grocery store supplements any more than it recommends expensive and trendy items without a full look at the science, how it affects the horse and does it actually work.

You have also stated you are feeding this product, which is 30 percent fat, as a replacement for flax (also a whole food).  Coconut and coconut oil - very trendy - appear to be the main source of the fat, with some hemp seed - also very trendy.  A quick look at nutritiondata.com shows coconut oil to be high in Omega 6s with little to no Omega 3s. This USDA source shows it contains phytosterols. It is also high in iron as outlined in feedipedia. Hemp seed is another source of fat, also with inverse Omegas. Omega 6 is pro-inflammatory.

The fruits and vegetables listed are not appropriate for an IR horse, especially one who appears to have ongoing laminitis. 

As I stated on the NRCPlus thread:

Ginger is also feeling better because the vast majority of PPID horses do better this time of year when ACTH is at it’s lowest. If PPID is also driving IR, insulin is lowered as well just naturally from the seasons.  That does not mean her disease or IR is controlled either by current dose of pergolide or this self-described miracle food.

Beverly, I need to be blunt, again, because it appears little recognition on your part of these  issues. The basis of this group and if I may, also Dr Kellon’s NRCPlus group, is discussion of the details in depth.  You hold yourself out as a nutritionist. Whether giving unsought nutritional advice in private emails, providing information on Ginger and Fred, or the many, many, many questions about them both, there has been precious little accurate data to back up any of your claims.

We can deal with lots of questions from any member.  The group expects correct, detailed information in return. Please do not tell us again you lost your Case History. I would be shocked to learn that you would put up with this in your clinic.

Thanks again for replying to this thread so that everyone may learn.  It is the heart of what ECIR does.  Also thank-you, so that volunteers know what to expect when you are posting. They do a super-woman job of helping members.  It is just extraordinary the support this group gives. Spinning their wheels with folks who can’t be straight with them is just too much to ask, IMO.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


To learn more about how  diagnosis, diet, trim and exercise  all come together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available. 2015 Conference Schedule

To answer the weight question:
Optimum EQ is primarily blue green algae. It is extremely dark green.
The tiny bits of dried veggies, fruits and nuts give it a blending base and provide something you can lift with a little scoop without it blowing away.
The powder is extremely light weight, therefore by weight it is farther down the list than heavy foods such as seeds or orange peel.
The combo provides a synergistic antioxidants blend. One of the main reasons for MovEase and PhytoQuench are that they also are edible antioxidants with ingredients that don't list on the label as there are hundreds of micronutrients there.
A tablespoon a day is all... She is not getting cup fulls of orange peel and fat!
Thanks, and there's a bit more in the conversations history for blue green spirulina, but only buy it properly packaged.
Beverly 6/14

Many points missed again, Beverly, but by all means, let's carry on.

As Dr Kellon pointed out yesterday one ounce of freeze dried can be a lot  more potent.  What is the total esc and starch in this product?

What is the WEIGHT of your Tablespoon please?

I've used spirulina for years.  It is very much more dense that other powders. So how MUCH spirulina - by weight - is in one freeze dried ounce, please?  I was feeding 20 grams twice a day.  Does your product have an equivalent amount for a pony?  Say 10 grams twice a day?

You put any amount of spirulina in anything, and it will turn very dark green.

My product was properly packaged.

Recommend you calculate just how much synergy you get in a 27 gram serving of these antioxidants.

Glutamine (min): 1.058%, Aspartic Acid (min): 0.793%, Alanine (min): 0.779%, Arginine (min): 0.615%, Threonine (min): 0.562%, Tyrosine (min): 0.536%, Valine (min): 0.535%, Lysine (min): 0.518%, Leucine (min): 0.515%, Isoleucine (min): 0.421%, Phenylalanine (min): 0.396%, Glycine (min): 0.379%, Serine (min): 0.238%, Proline (min): 0.238%, Histidine (min): 0.209%, Tryptophane (min): 0.178%, Methionine (min): 0.146%, Cystine (min): 0.125%

It is not much. For example it is recommended a full size horse gets 22 grams of  L-Glutamine a day, when needed. A powerful anti-oxidant but most horses do not need to go through the extra expense once teh diet is balanced.

Your product at a full 27 gram serving gives...let's see...27 X 1.058% = 0.28566. Really?

Not very much.  Would someone check my math please?

Dr Kellon, is there anything about synergy other than marketing, please?

Thanks. 

Happy Fourth everyone in the USA.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


To learn more about the impact of fructan, understanding and diagnosing PPID and IR, nutrition, the foot, how it all comes together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available. http://www.nolaminitis.org/…/program-schedule/guest-speakers

Beverly,

 

I would think with all the energy, time and conviction you have put into defending your supplementation of 1/2 oz. of Bio Star, which by your own description is a small amount of mostly blue green algae with peels and seeds in it to keep it from being blown away, you might consider putting the same effort into balancing Ginger's diet.

 

You have been an active EC/IR Member since June, 2014.  You are obviously aware that Diet is key to Ginger's recovery and well being; enough so that, in fact, you signed up for the NRC + Course.  So what gives??  Why not just read the materials and balance her diet and quit burning up your time on defending this product. To use Bio Star or not is, of course, your choice, but it appears that you are now locked onto it as the key to Ginger’s future success regardless of the actual analysis/contribution and any other factors that may be at or come into play in Ginger's health.  I really hope I am wrong about my observation.

 

 

 

Kathy Brinkerhoff

 

SE/WI  10/12