adding AAKG and ALCAR for laminitic mini?


chf1752@...
 

My almost 6 year old (born 7/11) mini mare is going through a very mild bout of laminitis now. Strong pulses, some white line separation and just today standing in the founder stance at times.


She's been on an IR diet since I got her, since she and her sister live with my old metabolic pony. In a dry lot with no grazing 24/7. Tested low ESC+starch hay in slow feeders.


Here's what she gets for feed (once a day)

1 cup ODTBC

zinc, copper, magnesium balanced to the hay

E/selenium

1/2tsp salt

1tsp turmeric

J-herb

chaste tree berry

peppermint


She is an extremely easy keeper and has always been too heavy, despite my best efforts. She weight tapes at around 300lbs and is 34" tall. Body score about a 7.


The soonest I can get a vet here is in 2 weeks, though I'm pretty sure she's IR. Does it make any sense to put her on ALCAR and AAKG now, while I wait?


Is there any other supplement that could help? I've been taping foam to her hooves, and I'm going to get boots for her tonight.


I'll get a CH for her together once I get the vet here.


Erin

ME

2014


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Erin,

Sorry your little girl is having issues. How much hay, by weight, is she consuming per day? How much exercise is she getting? Why is she on CTB? Any green stuff she can get to in the drylot? Pix of her, and esp her feet, would be helpful - can add those the ECH8 Photo section. Posting a case history now (can amend it later as needed) would be helpful.

Unfortunately, the hardest part of keeping a mini healthy is somehow managing to get them enough exercise to keep their weight down and their metabolism revved.

AlCar probably wouldn't hurt as it can have an insulin-sensitizing effect. AAKG not appropriate while she is actively laminitc.

Cold (ice/hosing) while sore and pulses are elevated is helpful.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



chf1752@...
 

I don't know exactly how much hay she eats every day, since she lives with my old pony and her sister. She's 300lbs, the pony is about 750lbs and her sister is about 250lbs. I put out about 30lbs of hay a day for them (half in the morning, half in the afternoon), and there's always some leftover the next day.

She was getting free lunged for 10-20 minutes 3 times a week. Then my personal life kinda blew up, and I haven't been able to work her for about 3 weeks. She and her sister do run and play in the dry lot, but I don't know how much time they spend playing. I was planning to expand their dry lot into a more Paddock Paradise type set up, but I'm behind on getting that done.

Yes, there is some grass she can get to through the fencing. I am planning to board up that section of fence, so she can't get to it. 

She's on CTB since she still has a little bit of her winter coat on her face that hasn't shed out. Everything else shed out fine. Though the weather here has been really nutty. Kinda cold at night. A couple weeks ago we went from 80 during the day to 37 at night. She also has some fattiness around her udder. 

She's driving me kinda crazy. She was standing in a bit of a founder stance, breathing fast, acting a little depressed with strong pulses before I fed her this afternoon. After I fed her, she ran off. Can she still feel good enough to run in very early stages of laminitis?

This is her from a couple days ago. 




I'll work on getting some more current pics of her and her hooves. Right now I'm off to track down some boot options.

Erin
ME
2014


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Erin,

Totally get the "life blowing up part" way toooo well. It happens. You can only do what you can do. Sometimes that works really ell, others times not so much.

At the combined weights of the three, total hay needed would be no more than 26lbs, so with 30lbs being available she is getting too much. This helps explain why she is carrying too much weight. Sounds like between the excess weight and suddenly not getting the exercise put her over the edge into mild laminitis. Finding a way to better control her food intake and increasing the exercise would be tops on my list. Instituting a paddock paradise is a great idea - says she who also has that on her bucket list.

When things settle down for you again, increasing her exercise time should be a priority. !0-20 min, 3 times per week is barely enough to make a dent, although is certainly better than nothing.

What a cutie :)

From the pix (thanks for those), the trim has gotten away from being optimal. Toes are quite long, heels run under. Likely, there is an overall excess amount of hoof height but would need laterals to confirm that. The frogs, heels and soles have migrated forward so are distorting the trimming landmarks. This means that the hoof form isn't as tight as it should be so any insults to the feet are likely to have greater impacts. Need to work on backing up the toes/heels to where they are at their structural strongest.

If she' mildly sore, yes adrenaline bursts can make her ignore mildly sore feet and take off. Cold hosing/icing, reducing total amount of food she ingests, getting rid of access to the greenies, realigning the trim are your goals here. Boots and pads if needed for now. Check the file here for things to do in an emergency when horse gets out on grass as it sounds as if she has had a similar type of trigger:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Emergency%20Protocols/

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team





chf1752@...
 

When I say I "put out 30lbs of hay", that doesn't mean they eat it all. They eat about 90% of what I put out. Also, my 250lb mini is very high maintenance since she's very active and high strung (its a battle to keep her body score a 5). The other two are very low maintenance.

When I did the trim pictured, I realized that things weren't going well. I was 2-3 trims in to experimenting with ELPO hoof mapping. I've since discarded that trim style and have gone back to a more barefoot style trim. I'll try to get pics tomorrow. 

Any tips for getting good hoof pics with an iPhone? The pics I'm getting look more distorted than the hoof I see in front of me. 

If she decides she wants to tear around the dry lot with her sister, is it ok to work her? Her pulses were normal last night and this afternoon.

How much work should she be getting? Will adding in some jumps help give her a more intense workout? Right now, I just don't have time to do the training I really want to do with her, so its free lunging for now. 

I have quite a bit of land, and also a lot of fence posts and fencing. If I make a paddock paradise setup, does it need to be a dry lot...or can there be grass and weeds? I have a 10 acre field and could fence off about 1/3 of it. The section I'm thinking about has a very steep hill, so she'd get quite a workout. This is just an idea...not at all saying I'd do this. It would be a cheaper option than expanding the dry lot, since I have all the materials and equipment. I really wish I lived in a desert, so I could give them as much room to run as possible. 

Can nibbling grass and weeds through the fence be enough of a trigger? The grass here is really stressed, since its been quite cold and we haven't gotten enough rain. Heck...I'm still blanketing my horses at night. I think the limited grass nibbling is a more likely trigger, since the hay I'm feeding is a rather low calorie hay. 

Would 10 grams of magnesium really be appropriate for a 300lb mini? 

Why is soaking the hooves in cold water appropriate? I thought that IR can cause poor circulation and putting the hooves in cold water would cause vasoconstriction. 

Erin
ME
2014