Dutch not eating anything appropriate for him


bigelow.rebecca
 

     I’m still looking for something to use as a carrier for Dutch’s supplements. Stabul 1 was suggested. My local Tractor Supply stores insist they don’t carry it. It says on the website for Nu Zu that any Tractor Supply store could order it but 10 bags is the minimum order.  I don’t know if he would eat it but ordering 10 bags doesn’t seem reasonable unless I know it would work.  I sent Nu Zu an email asking if there were any other sources.  Since I’ve tried beet pulp, Timothy Balance Cubes and Triple Crown Equine Lite, all with a resounding “No thanks! “  I’m wondering if there are any other suggestions I could try.Are Purina Enrich Plus or Triple Crown 30 worth a try I also read somewhere that Cocosoya might help with palatability but I’m worried that it would be too much fat for him.  Is that right? 

     Also I’m trying to make soaking hay work at a boarding facility with more than one person feeding.  If I got some chicken wire or cyclone fencing and put it up on saw horses (I saw something like that in the files)  could I then dry the hay then put it in plastic bags after weighing it so the person feeding could just pick up the bag and give it to Dutch?  It’s in the nineties and hundreds here and I don’t want to risk moldy or spoiled hay.

   I'm working on pictures to post but it was 104 today, not conducive to laying on the ground for good foot shots.

 

Rebecca and Dutch
Elk Grove, CA     2009

Case History:https://groups.yahoo. com/neo/groups/echistory8/ files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch/


 



corrine haffner
 

Hi Rebecca

You can call or email nu zu and have them send you samples of the stabul 1, have two that are flavored and one that's just plain. Then you could find out if its worth ordering 10 bags or not. If he's like my boy and doesn't like a feed he'll turn his nose up at even a handful of said feed.

They send the samples out free of charge. 

Iv even crushed up sugar free mints to get my boy to eat stuff,its not fool proof though what works one day doesn't always work the next day.

Hope this helps,
Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014


<<<<<<<<Case History:https://groups.yahoo. com/neo/groups/echistory8/ files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch/>>>>>>>>>


 



Lorna Cane
 


>  Since I’ve tried beet pulp, Timothy Balance Cubes and Triple Crown Equine Lite, all with a resounding “No thanks! “ 


Hi Rebecca,


Is it the carrier? Or the supplements,do you think?

If you are trying those carriers with the supps added,maybe try them,one at a time,without supps.Then if he deigns to eat one of them you could begin adding the supps a pinch at a time,'til he gets used to them.

Maybe?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
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Kerry Isherwood
 

....."could I then dry the hay then put it in plastic bags after weighing it so the person feeding could just pick up the bag and give it".....


>>> Hi Rebecca,

Are you weighing hay *after* its soaked, or before?  Just curious.  I've always thought to weigh hay *before* its soaked...maybe i'm just confusing myself by misinterpreting your words...

And I'd be nervous about putting it in a plastic bag after its been recently wet due to chance of mold or something similar sinister.  Maybe into a plastic laundry basket that has airing holes on sides?  Idk, its a thought.  Or maybe a firewood contraption, where a piece of malleable material is attached between two handles, that lies flat on the ground for loading and handles can be brought together for ease of carrying?  That way the drying hay could be kept out in air until ready for transport to Dutch. 

Just thoughts!  Sometimes I feel like 98% MacGyver and 2% actual riding equestrian with these IRs ;)

Good luck,

Kerry in NY
Sept 14


paulah@...
 


Hi Rebecca,
If you are just looking for a carrier, I use distiller's grains that I get from my local feed mill.  Dr. Kellon had recommended them to me when other options were not available.  Both of my boys love it.  They are below 6% ESC + starch.  I use 1 cup with minerals, flax and salt, 2X/day.  It's inexpensive too.
Can you use something other than plastic bags for the hay after you dry it?  If it doesn't get dry enough, it would be better to have it in something that breathes a bit.  Greedy feeder bags or some other bag might be useful.
You want to weigh the hay before soaking so you are not weighing the added water.  
It was only in the 90's here, so I guess I should be grateful it's not as hot as what you are experiencing.
Best regards,
--Paula with Onyx and Cory in Bucks County, PA

---In EquineCushings@..., <bigelow.rebecca@...> wrote :

     I’m still looking for something to use as a carrier for Dutch’s supplements. 

     Also I’m trying to make soaking hay work at a boarding facility with more than one person feeding.  If I got some chicken wire or cyclone fencing and put it up on saw horses (I saw something like that in the files)  could I then dry the hay then put it in plastic bags after weighing it so the person feeding could just pick up the bag and give it to Dutch?  It’s in the nineties and hundreds here and I don’t want to risk moldy or spoiled hay.

   I'm working on pictures to post but it was 104 today, not conducive to laying on the ground for good foot shots.

 

Rebecca and Dutch
Elk Grove, CA     2009

Case History:


mulish51
 

Rebecca,
I live a little south of you, just north of Modesto.  I also have been unable to source ODTBCs or Stabul 1 at a reasonable price/quantity/distance.  For over 5 years I have used LMF Low NSC Complete (widely available in our area) as a carrier and main diet for IR/PPID horses, non-affected elderly horses (Yes!  They exist!) with tooth issues, etc.  They all seem to find it very palatable.  I feed it as a mush with their salt and other supplements, and the little pellets dissolve in water very quickly, even in winter.  The label analysis states that the feed is 2% starch, 6% sugar and 4.6% fat. The main component is soy hull pellets, although It does contain some ingredients of which this group does not approve, such as alfalfa, rice bran, and yucca.  So, probably not a good choice for a horse in crisis or sensitive to those ingredients, but it has worked out for my herd.  And it's about $15 per 50 lb bag, which you can buy one at a time if you so desire.

Beth in middle CA, with Ezra, etc.
2010


Lorna Cane
 


> The main component is soy hull pellets, although It does contain some ingredients of which this group does not approve, such as alfalfa, rice bran, and yucca.

I would just buy straight soy hull pellets,if I were you.
I've fed them for years.Horses love them - as do the cats and dog 


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
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bigelow.rebecca
 

Where do I get soy hulls and what about cocsoya to make the minerals stick and not go to the bottom of the pan. Also i read that soy hulls need to soak for 2 hours to soften them, can't do that at a boarding facility. I realize I will probably have to make some different choices based on the fact that Dutch isn't at my home. I need some suggestions that are appropriate  for putting in a bucket for a barn worker to give him. Sometimes getting as close as I can to ideal will be the best I can do.


Lorna Cane
 

> Also i read that soy hulls need to soak for 2 hours to soften them, 

Not true.
Add water,and it soaks in almost immediately.Warm water faster than cold,of course.

I just add minerals on top,after stirring.

Please sign posts.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


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bigelow.rebecca
 

That sounds like a great idea. I've looked at length and can't find a feed mill near me. The closest is Elk Grove Milling which makes its own feed, all of which won't work for him. Is there any packaged sources that anyone knows about?


bigelow.rebecca
 

You are so right! If I just had my own farm it would be so easy. I guess weighing the hay before soaking is the correct approach. I would then need to dry it and then put it in a hay net or something similar, right? anyone done this at a boarding facility? Thanks for all the feedback. I feel like a real whiner, shooting down all the suggestions that are made. I'm just acutely aware of the limitations I'm up against. 


Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Rebecca,

One of the Members mentioned LMG Low NSC Complete as a possible carrier.  In post # 194181 Jaini points out this is a "safe" feed.  Low NSC Complete - LMF Feeds

 


The Sugar is 6% and Starch 2%.   Can you get this in your area?  Poster thought you might be able to.  You might consider trying to get a sample from the company for a taste test.  In my experience, they have a very helpful team and are happy to answer questions.

Dr. Kellon did a field trial for two months of Uckele's  Cocasoya and found that feeding up to 4 oz. per day was safe for IR and PPID horses.


Kathy Brinkerhoff 

SE/WI  10/12
 




bigelow.rebecca
 

He isn't eating the carrier. I've tried mixing the beet pulp with the pelleted Equine Lite, each one alone, Timothy Balance cubes mixed in and alone. I tried small amounts of Safe Choice Senior feed just to make sure he wasn't off his feed when this first happened and he scarfed it down. He is still eating hay though, so I'm not worried about that. He hasn't had any of the minerals for over a month now. Just hay. There's got to be something safe he'll eat, I keep telling myself! Thanks


Lorna Cane
 

We ask all our members to sign their posts,every time they post.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup







Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Rebecca,

Here is the post about CocoSoya from Dr. Kellon from the current 0715 NRC + Course.

Post # 82

I did a field trial with ten IR horses fed 4 oz/day of CocoSoya for 2 months.  There was no significant change over that time period so up to 4 oz/day is safe.

Eleanor

In my post I mistakenly referred to the feed as LMG but as you can see by the posted link it is LMF.

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12







Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Rebecca,

Are you currently feeding the hay you are planning on testing?   or, the Rye Hay from the CH?

Sorry, I am a bit confused on which hay you are soaking and feeding.

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12




bigelow.rebecca
 

Hi Kathy, I'm waiting for the analysis results for the hay I'm currently feeding. The BO has new hay that is outside because it wouldn't fit in her barn. She's trying to use it up before it rains here (If it ever does again in California!).  She usually lets me know when she's going to start feeding new hay so I can test it first but she did't tell me in time.
Rebecca and Dutch


bigelow.rebecca
 

     Thanks for this information. I can get the LMF products easily. I think I'll try that with a sample of Cocosoya as as addition if he likes it. I'm thinking if I can get the minerals to stick to something he likes both of our lives will be greatly simplified. I'd be willing to give the soy hulls a try if I could find them but no luck so far. 
Rebecca and Dutch
March 09
Elk Grove,CA
    
   


Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Okay, thanks

So to  summarize you are currently trying to  feed Dutch 1 1/2 scoops of CA Trace, Quiescence, Vitamin E and 1/4 cup of flax, correct?    If I am remembering correctly the CA Trace and Quiessence are in pelleted form, Vitamin E in capsule and flax is flax.  Why not try getting a sample of the Coca Soya from Uckele and see if he will eat it.  My horses were crazy about for what that is worth :-)  If he were my horse, I would start with a small amount of an appropriate carrier (Soy Bean Hulls or LMF Low Starch) and lace it with some Coca Soya and  see if he'll eat it.  If he eats it then slowly add in the CA Trace and then the Quiescence and so on with small amounts of flax to the mix lastly... or whatever order you choose.  I am, also,  thinking if he likes the Coca Soya you may not need a carrier if the supplements are in pelleted form.....whoever feeds could mix the Coca Soya with the supps and the flax  I guess I am putting a lot of confidence in Coca Soya as possibly solving your problem. :-)  I think it is worth a try.

When you get the new hay analysis contact me and I will be happy to help you if you'd like to balance Dutch's diet.  

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12





Kerry Isherwood
 

....."I guess I am putting a lot of confidence in Coca Soya"......


omg, both of my IRs were crazy for Cocosoya. Its like horse crack. Even my dog got excited just by the sight of the white jug.
Both of my IRs went through rough patches whereby i deleted all extraneous fats from their diets, so im really happy to see the recent post abt 4oz of the horse crack being field tested as safe. Very nice to add that to the arsenal when the "oh hell no am i eating that" mood strikes

Kerry in NY
Sept 14