Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses/PQ question??


corrine haffner
 

Would it hurt to give more then 4 scoops of PQ daily??  Thinking 3 scoops AM 3 Scoops PM,reason is jasper's extremely lame on all 4 feet right now. Front feet white line is full of blood, back feet have no clue why he's lame on them. He is also on ALCAR don't remember amount right now..

For as lame as he is he's not spending a lot of time laying down,he's at hay net eating or eating on his ODTB cubes. 


Nancy C
 

Cannot speak to PQ increase.

If he is up and able to move, I'd be looking to doing what I could for trim.  One swipe at a time. 

He may be sore on the hind b/c of compensation for his fores. That said, making sure his hinds are well-trimmed so he can take the load form the fores while he is recuperating, is critical.  Hinds very often are forgotten in the laminitis rehab. 

If he will let you, strart there - on the hinds - to give hiim a comfortable place to go when you trim the fores.

IME< it can make a huge difference.

Not laying down is huge.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR GRoup mod
Februaru 2003


---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote

For as lame as he is he's not spending a lot of time laying down,he's at hay net eating or eating on his ODTB cubes. 


corrine haffner
 

He's not laying down a lot but  he's not moving much,stays parked at feeder hobbles over to trough for drink,then stays there for a while. He's eating 20 lbs of cubes plus 5 lbs of hay by morning  nothing is left,and he's losing weight.
 Cubes are divided in to 3 feedings,maybe go up another 5 pounds on ODTB cubes ??Or up hay 5 lbs leave ODTB cubes at 20 lbs?

 Yes i know trim needs to be right,waiting for markups on recent pics i posted.  Hopefully Dr Kellon will chime in on the PQ dosage being upped again. Sorry for all the questions,i like to get input before i change things in diet.

Did a little on back feet today. Thank you Nancy.


corrine haffner
 

I finally have an anwser to why jasper continues to be so sore,every day kids going by here stop and feed Jasper apples & sugar cube!!! I caught them this evening just before dark. 

So jasper had a huge sugar load tonight entire box of sugar cubes and 8 apples, i was beyond mad...i sent husband out to talk to the kids.. They told husband we feel sorry for that yellow horse because he limps so badly. 


gypsylassie
 

Oh Corrine, I'm afraid if I had been there those kids would have learned a whole new vocabulary. You've found a big piece of the puzzle, but dang ! Hopefully now Jasper can finally start healing and you can begin to feel better too.Does he eat r/s/r beet pulp. If something like that happens again, you can give him a serving of the beet pulp to lower the sugar/starch % a bit for that "meal".
Laura K Chappie & Beau
N IL 2011


corrine haffner
 

Hi Laura

Oh they learned a few new words tonight i wasn't to nice. No jasper wont do beet pulp does the ODTB cubes. 
Worried about how this latest sugar fix is going to effect him,not sure if he was laminatic to begin with or not,if not this might put him over the edge now. 

Had heat and strong pulse but only lasted a few days, so not sure that was a laminitis attack?? He's crippled up tonight,but was prior to the treats. 


gypsylassie
 

I'm not on my computer, so can't search files, but there's a "got out on grass" file that might be of help. I think I remember bumping up the magnesium a bit, along with cold hosing the feet. I'm not sure about his poor feet tho. He's been thru so much already. I really feel for you both.
Laura K Chappie & Beau
N IL 2011


 

Corrine,

IMO, I would put him back on the emergency diet (soaked hay) for a few days, at least. This is almost exactly what my mare did last fall, almost to the day. She was going along well, then completely crashed at a show when she ate the grass under her shavings (which would be the treats for Jasper). This was third week of August last year. She was a known IR but not yet diagnosed PPID at that point. After the show I immed switched to soaked hay and she felt better, but every time I tried taking her off the soaked hay (unsoaked hay <7% ESC/starch; ODTB cubes, etc) she got ouchy and depressed and her insulin soared. Ultimately, the only thing that helped was starting her on pergolide. So in your case, Im thinking you may not be on a high enough pergolide and Jasper's IR is still very sensitive to sugars (I dont think its councidence he took a major dive when you switched from soaked hay of 8% ESC/starch to the ODTB cubes, which would almost certainly be higher in S/S (although still low enough for most, *stable* IRs).

I realize Jasper has other comfounding factors (Lyme, etc) that make his case unique, but as an outsider looking in to his history, the switch from soaked hay to close to 20lbs/day of ODTB is IMO, a huge jump in S/S for Jasper, from what he was on (strictly soaked hay). You also have the seasonal rise adding problems now too. I realize youre concerned about lack of balancing and/or weight loss by going back to soaked hay, but I think you need to get him out of this current crisis first and then go back to addressing weight loss (though one member mentioned his current condition looked good? I could not find a current body shot...but im on my phone which is persnickety in its Neo navigation)

Again, Im no expert, but I was in a similar situation exactly a year ago and wanted to offer the insight I gained from that experience. If nothing else, I wanted to offer moral support for your ongoing, seemingly relentless struggles.

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014


corrine haffner
 

Hi Kerry 

I can easily enough put him back on the emergency diet.of just soaked hay. Yes my concern is having diet balanced reason for ODTB cubes. The poster who said he looked good wished her IR horse was lean like jasper, that pic is dated 8-28-2015. Since that picture was taken he's dropped more weight,he is currently on 20lbs of ODTB cubes 5lbs of hay. 

Do i just drop ODTB cubes and go back to just soaked hay? Could also be dealing with a lyme flare up his appetite is good,so kinda doubt it. 

Also need input on white line being full of blood on both fronts,have up current hoof pics shows some of the blood in white line,more blood now then when pics where taken.


Not sure if you saw last nights post on the kids feeding him apples & sugar cube's?? every evening unknown to me till last night when i caught them. So that could also be a big part of his becoming so sore footed and staying sore footed. 

Still wondering if i can up PQ to 3 scoops twice a day?,is on 2 scoops twice a day currently the 3 scoops twice a day would only be to get him through this crisis.  I know i need to update CH will do that after sept 14th re test.  


 

Im hoping others will chime in, but yes, Ive always just stopped everything and switched cold turkey to soaked hay when my IRs appeared in crisis. They get a little pissed but usually their appetites are raging in an insulin spike so the sulking only lasts a short while

Yes, I saw your note abt the unknown treats. Very sorry to hear that. Last year I caught my neighbors feeding raw corn on the cobs snd tomatoes(?) to my two (neighbors had "run out of carrots"). At the boarding barn where one IR lives, I had to plaster signs all over his paddock boards that say "DIABETIC HORSE -- no treats/grain/grass of any kind". The "diabetes" scares people enough that they wont give treats, whereas Ive found the polite "No Treats" signs were ignored.

I dont have any experience with PQ, unfortunately.

Hang in there....
Kerry in NY
Sept 14


corrine haffner
 

I put jasper on the Emergency diet as of this afternoon,has two hay nets stuffed with soaked hay. Am i doing the right thing here or not?? I know wonder if the treats aren't the trigger of his problems? and had nothing to do with ODTB cubes. 

I feel like i just can't have anything go right,i'am ready to kill some kids that DON'T get horse CAN'T have apples & sugar cube's. Was gone for just over an hour to come home to same kids out at fence feeding jasper treats. I think they got it this time i went off the deep end on them used every swear word in the book and told them to stay the h*** off my property.Told both of the kids i see you back at the fence i'll be calling the sheriff...

So more sugar to add insult to injury i'am so upset i could just cry,sorry for the rant.


kansteen5545@...
 

Corrine -
I would be having a very serious talk with the parents of those kids!
Karen
ME/2014

---- "sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings]"

I feel like i just can't have anything go right,i'am ready to kill some kids that DON'T get horse CAN'T have apples & sugar cube's. Was gone for just over an hour to come home to same kids out at fence feeding jasper treats. I think they got it this time i went off the deep end on them used every swear word in the book and told them to stay the h*** off my property.Told both of the kids i see you back at the fence i'll be calling the sheriff...
































corrine haffner
 

Hi 

How long do i leave he on emergency diet? till after testing on sept 14th 2015 and results ? Still want to know if i can up PQ to 3 scoops 2 times a day? He's dead lame and unhappy with diet change, he's gone on eating strike now.


larockj@...
 

Hi Corrine,

I'm new here... and have been following your story for a month or so.  In reading about the kids and treats, I remembered what accidentally worked for me a while back. 

Strangers were trying to interact with my horses over the fence, and ZAP!  The electric fence got them. 

Ironically, they complained to ME about getting zapped, when they were the ones trespassing.

I'm just sayin'... kids tend to remember getting zapped by hot wire for the rest of their lives... I'm not suggesting anything radical but... desperate times... ?

I hope Jasper gets better real soon.

Jessica & Mimi
NY 2015



 

Hi Corinne,

I would just leave him on it for a few days, see if you get any improvement to the hoof pain.  Definitely not until Sept 14th.  Hoping others will chime in to advise. 

Sorry, I dont know anything about PQ. 

Kerry in NY 
Sept 2014 


alikern@...
 

not the same for sure but I sometimes explain the horse has something like diabetes and they all seem to know children and adults with Type 1 or 11 need to be very careful about what they eat


corrine haffner
 

Hi  Kerry

So only a few days on emergency diet that's kinda what i thought but wasn't sure.Friday he should be less lame hopefully. 


thelittlebarnonwhiteoakfarm@...
 

Hi Corrine,   I've been following your story for quite some time now.  You've been working so hard to get your horse feeling better and these kids are throwing a monkey wrench into the mix.  You have a perfect right to be angrier than heck.  I'm sorry I don't have any advise for you, I'm still learning myself.   I hope Jasper feels better very soon.  You're doing a great job, hang in there. 

Susan in CT
7-2012


corrine haffner
 

 Hi Jessica 
<<<Strangers were trying to interact with my horses over the fence, and ZAP!  The electric fence got them. >> 

My fence on that section has several warning signs that say electric fence,did that because it's next to dirt road. So much for strangers getting a ZAP.

Did some changing up today so jasper is on south side of barn, and kids can't get any where near him to feed treats. All that's keeping jasper there is one strand of hot wire,and no grass within 5 feet of hot fence.

Thank you,
Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014


corrine haffner
 

Hi 
Thank you susan, he's fenced in near barn now kids can no longer get any where near him. So i'll see if he now makes improvement. Does have issues with his trim and past bad farrier work, so have that in the mix also.

I'am now trimming his feet,so posting on ECHoof for help with that. He's got a lot of things going on ,so who know what is trigger what.