Jiaogulan , APF, Prascend


Dawn Wagstaff
 

Hi all,
My vet was out this morning to pull ACTH, insulin and glucose for my 20 year old stallion. As soon as I get results back, I'll get a case file. up. 

Stallion this morning has some modest heat in feet and mild pulses. My vet, after reviewing current feed (no packaged feed, timothy pellets with U balance) and on how this stallion is presenting with fat pads, laminitis, eye socket fat, etc. recommended starting on Prascend and adjusting depending on lab results. 

Testing will be done at Michigan State. My vet has a meeting there this afternoon so he was driving directly home to his office, will spin and process the sample, then was driving it directly to MSU and delivering it to the lab. It seemed ridiculous to ask him instead to send it via courier to Cornell. 

He said he has had very good results with using Prascend, so I will start with that. He is willing to write a script for either compound or Prascend, will see where this goes.

My question is the following. This stallion is currently receiving 1/1/2 teaspoons of Jiaogulan per day split into two doses. It is both for his feet and for his RAO. Vet left a bottle of Ventipulmin should he have another episode of heaves. No more Dex as you can imagine.

Should I discontinue the J herb and switch to APF during the transitioning on to Prascend? 

Dawn Wagstaff
Saline, MI  2003


Nancy C
 

Hi Dawn

If you are concerned about pergolide veil, I would hold off on jherb for now and use the APF.

For those who are new to the Cornell vs MSU issue, below are a few messages that might help.  Members have seen Cornell confirm PPID when MSU did not.  It has nothing to do with courier service. One member suspected her horse was uncontrolled through signs even though regular testing with MSU was not confirming same.  Side-by-side testing at her expense showed Cornell confirming her suspicions.  (Thank you Melanie)

Links to conversations about this below. See especially 170798.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/170798

 


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/194249

 


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/194338

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/188024

 


This issue can be problematic not only for initial diagnosis but for following up to make sure the pergolide is at the correct dose.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <parkell2001@...> wrote :



Testing will be done at Michigan State. My vet has a meeting there this afternoon so he was driving directly home to his office, will spin and process the sample, then was driving it directly to MSU and delivering it to the lab. It seemed ridiculous to ask him instead to send it via courier to Cornell. 



Dawn Wagstaff
 

Nancy, thank you for the response, I will pick up APF this afternoon. 

In my case, I have to tread a little lightly about the Cornell/MSU situation. My vet is an adjunct at MSU, we are located only an hour away and most of the vets in my area are grads. He knows Hal Schott , DVM personally. I also attend occasional public equestrian care seminars there. They are my emergency clinic. 

He is open to working with whoever I want as far as labs, etc.( we went through quite a few labs several years ago with my mare that Dr.Kellon was consulting on). Of course, he uses MSU exclusively unless there is an overriding reason to go somewhere else. I can request Cornell next time, I just need to be "sensitive" about it.

 Fortunately for me, he didn't want to just treat lab numbers, but instead is treating the horse he sees in front of him. This is something that those members who are new need to be aware of. If you are simply treating numbers and the horse is not getting better. He also has embraced many of the recommendations here. This morning as we discussed feed, he said that for IR prone horses, in his opinion, there is no safe bagged feed, and he only recommends a carrier and either balanced minerals or a mineral ration balancer.

I can remember when you couldn't get a vet to recommend anything other than Purina.....

Dawn Wagstaff
Saline, MI  2003



Nancy C
 

Sounds like you have the situation under control.  Glad your vet is listening. I can also remember receiving a quote from clinicians who believed reports from horse owners were "suspect at best".

Here's to effecting even more change for our horses. We've come a long way but I am daily reminded of just how much work there is yet left to do.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 





I can remember when you couldn't get a vet to recommend anything other than Purina.....

Dawn Wagstaff
Saline, MI  2003



Dawn Wagstaff
 

Just a heads up. I used to be able to buy APF from Tractor Supply and both of my somewhat local tack shops. 

I called both tack shops, two feed stores and visited two Tractor Supply stores. None carry APF anymore.

I just ordered it from HorseHealthUSA, which is the closest and fastest online. Will have to wait two days before it gets here, but I will be giving the Prascend tonight and hopefully won''t see a veil immediately. Will taper on also.

I would suggest for anyone anticipating they might be starting pergolide to visit APF's website and try to find the quickest route to obtain.

Dawn Wagstaff
Saline, MI  2003


janieclougher@...
 

Thanks for that heads up, Dawn - good to know.   I am glad your vet sounds on-the-ball; treating the horse as well as the numbers is important!  I am also happy to NOT hear: "Can't be Cushing's, no long, curly coat". (my education on equine cushing's in vet school many, many years ago was pretty much confined to coat changes, then dig the hole).

One vet at a time, slowly but surely...

You are a great ambassador for all those metabolic and PPID horses out there. Keep up the good work!

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

EC Case History 1





---In EquineCushings@..., <parkell2001@...> wrote :

Just a heads up. I used to be able to buy APF from Tractor Supply and both of my somewhat local tack shops. ...

I called both tack shops, two feed stores and visited two Tractor Supply stores. None carry APF anymore.

Dawn Wagstaff
Saline, MI  2003