Okay To Substitute Uckele Cocoomega For Ground Flax?


Lynn
 

I recently switched out Omega Horseshine (because they changed their recipe) for Triple Crown Feed Natural Golden Ground Flax. Relevante has since picked out grain leaving the flax (and some of the other supps) behind. Since that is the only thing that has changed and he was cleaning everything up before i'm assuming he does not like the flax product (we tried adding more water and maple syrup...no go). If i'm reading information on the forum about the Cocoomega can i substitute that for the ground flax? If so, it sounds like he might like that better. I just wanted to be sure before buying it. I also plan to add j-herb and ALCAR (from mybesthorse) to increase comfort between trims. From what i read these products seem palatable so do i also need to slowly introduce or just start at the recommended dosing levels? Thanks. 
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Maggie
 

Hi Lynn,

We aim to supplement Omega 3 and 6's in about the same ratio as fresh grass, about 4:1.  Uckele carries 2 forms of Coco-Omega, both a granular and also an oil form.  The granular form is not a good substitute for ground flax seed because the Omega 3:6 ratio is "upside down", ie. more Omega 6 than Omega 3.  The oil, on the other hand, has a ratio of about 4:1, and would be a good substitute for ground flax seed.  You could also use plain flax seed oil, available at local feed stores and online.  Here's Jaini's "make your brain hurt" flax seed calculations:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/203051   Long story short, about 2.5 Tbsp of oil replaces the recommended amount of ground seed.

Did you try starting the TC golden flax with just a pinch?  Maybe try going back to just a pinch and work your way up?  I would also make double sure that the ground flax seed has not gone "off" before I gave up on it. You may or may not be able to tell by smelling it, but since horses have a much more sensitive sense of smell, even it smells OK to you, it may not to Relevante.  I have used this product for many years and have never had an issue, but it's always a possibility.

Even though jherb and alcar are usually readily accepted, as with all new supplements, I would start with a pinch and go up from there.  Depending on well he accepts them, you can increase slowly or more rapidly.  Start one at a time so you know which he objects to, if he does.

--
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
ECIR Moderator/Primary Response


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 04:52 am, Maggie wrote:

We aim to supplement Omega 3 and 6's in about the same ratio as fresh grass, about 4:1.  Uckele carries 2 forms of Coco-Omega, both a granular and also an oil form.  The granular form is not a good substitute for ground flax seed because the Omega 3:6 ratio is "upside down", ie. more Omega 6 than Omega 3.
That's not correct. You may have been looking at another product. The omega-3:6 ratio in the granular is also 4:1.
 
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

P.S. Remember there's a standing 5% discount on any Uckele product for ECIR members (coupon code ECIR). You can also get Jiaogulan and ALCar.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lynn
 

Great. And yes i'll definitely check out j-herb and ALCAR at Uckele. Every penny saved is appreciated! So just to be sure i understand...the granular or the oil form of Coco-Omega will work as a flax replacement? I will certainly check the Triple Crown product's freshness and try going back to a small amount first. I didn't do that to begin with since he was already up to full dosage on the Omega Horseshine with no problem i figured the Triple Crown product wouldn't be an issue..Ha ha!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Maggie
 

Sorry, I stand corrected!  I must have pulled up the granular CocoSoya info accidentally.  Thanks Dr Kellon!
--
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
ECIR Moderator/Primary Response


celestinefarm
 

I do not understand. We have been told on this list for ages not to feed rice bran. The first ingredient listed in coco omega is stabilized rice bran. And I am also confused on the omega 3 ratio. It plainly says on the bag that Omega 6 is the highest percentage omega in the bag.

Uckele's flagship product in a convenient granular!  It provides all the advantages of the original CocoSoya Oil: rich in Omega 3, 6 and 9 fatty acidsin a unique blend of coconut oil and unrefined, cold-pressed soybean oil combined with stabilized Flax Seed, and stabilized Rice Bran to provide support for healthy skin, glossy coat, and strong hooves..

This 30% fat supplement provides significant palatability to promote a glossy coat and support the waterproof barrier of skin and hooves. 100% unrefined, cold pressed calorie source to help maintain a good body weight.



Ingredients: Heat Stabilized Rice Bran, Corn Distiller Grains with Solubles, Flaxseed(cold milled), Soybean Oil (cold pressed), Natural & Artificial Flavors, Vitamin E Supplement (dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate), Coconut Oil, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Extract, Active Dry Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), Maltodextrin, Salt, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus lactis Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Citric Acid(a preservative), Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


celestinefarm
 

Here is the Omega percentages from the granular page that accompanies my post above.
Guaranteed Analysis per 150 g (4 scoops):
Crude Protein............................................16.5% min
Crude Fat...................................................29.0% min
Total Fatty Acids.......................................27.5% min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids..................................9.9% min
Omega 9 Fatty Acids..................................7.3% min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids..................................7.1% min
Crude Fiber.................................................. 13% max
Vitamin E.................................................... 35 IU min
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


celestinefarm
 

Ok, I did the same thing with the Cocosoya granular instead of the cocoomega granular as I just used Maggie's link.  So in case anyone else is confused, my two posts above refer to COCOSOYA GRANULAR. 

Lynn, if you are still reading, let me give you a warning about the Cocoomega.  I tried it a while back , it has fish oil in it and NONE of my horses would touch it. When I returned it to Uckele, they weren't surprised. 
Dawn
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Dawn,

That's CocoSoya, not CocoOmega:

https://uckele.com/coco-omega-granular.html
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lynn
 

I just got back from the farm.. Spent the day with my boy.. I did note that the Coco Soya product contained the rice bran so was looking at the Coco omega instead but didn't think about the fish oil being distasteful...Gah! Dawn did you use the oil version or the granular? And thanks Dr Kellon for verifying the ratios on the Coco Omega products. He was not interested in his food at all this morning.. (Though he finally got around to eating it .. Just not the flax...But when I offered rinsed soaked rinsed beet pulp he went crazy for that... So I told them to with hold the flax altogether and see what happens.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


celestinefarm
 

I used the oil version of CocoOmega. https://uckele.com/coco-omega-oil.html.  I normally always use the original Cocosoya Oil and thought I would boost the Omega 3's.  They love cocosoya, as does my barn cat, but absolutely would not touch the Omega with fish oil in it.  I took it back to Uckele after the one dose as it is really expensive for the gallon. Something to know, Uckele has a 100% guarantee on their products, so if you buy something your horses won't eat, you can return it, although I don't know how they handle the shipping. I just walk in with it, full refund. It's rare I've ever taken anything back, but this time warranted it.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Lynn
 

I wonder if the granular version would be any better? They do have a 5 lb bag one could start with....
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


 

Hi Lynn,

I buy 50 lb. bags of whole flaxseed from Buckley Brothers.   I  grind it right before I feed and my horses readily accept it.   Why don't you first try feeding it whole,  and see if he'll eat it that way.

Carol Broyles
Spring Valley,  Ohio
August 2007


Lynn
 

Carol - you must have been reading my mind - i was just reading about the whole flaxseed and thinking to myself that he might take it that way since it might seem more like feed. Going right by there to the farm. I'm going to try feeding it to him whole! Thank you for that tip and for letting me know Buckley Brothers has it! I'll let you know what happens!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Patty Franklin
 

Wait. Moderators, if the flax seed is not ground, will the horse get enough of the omega 3 benefit? I thought that's why we grind flax seed, to make the oils more available.
--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
May 2017
Scappoose, OR  USA

Blessing's Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Blessing's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 


LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

You are reading my mind Helen.  I was just searching for why we grind it but couldn't find anything in the few minutes before I have to run out the door. 
Support Team? 
--

- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.  March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Ha!  Might have found it deep in the messages:
Why do flaxseeds need to be ground?
The hard outer shell of the whole flax seed needs to be broken in order
for any health benefits to be imparted to the body. Otherwise, the seeds
just get passed through the body and get excreted via the bowels. So
any seeds not being ground by the teeth, simply pass through. Concerning
grinding your own whole flax seed -- not only does it take you extra
time and energy -- but you also have to be careful about the stability
factor, because flax that hasn't been stabilized can go rancid if not
properly stored. You have to refrigerate or freeze any leftover ground
flax. Then you have to be disciplined enough to diligently clean out
your grinder (most folks use a small coffee grinder) to make sure the
ground flax is totally cleaned out.

The part about the hard shell seems to ring true. 
Here is the link to the original message which did not seem to get any replies.  
- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.  March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


 

The last I remember reading on this subject was that we really didn't know if all the seed was passed through whole or not.  Dr. Kellon said that feeding it whole was better than not feeding it at all.  The best thing of course would be to grind and then feed.  If Lynn's horse won't eat the stabilized flax, then trying to feed it freshly ground would be something to try next.  If that doesn't work,  then feeding it whole is a last resort. 

If we have any new information on this,  I'd like to hear it.

Carol Broyles
Spring Valley,  Ohio 
August 2007


Helen Temps
 

I believe you have to feed twice the amount of the whole seed.   

Helen Temps and Chloe  June 2017
Placerville, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Chloe.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6929