Hello,

I just uploaded a hay analysis to my case history folder.  This batch of hay belongs to my mom who orders her hay from the same provider I do.  I sampled her batch to find out if I should request hay from the same lot as this one when I reorder hay for my own horses next week.  This is my first ever hay analysis so I am not very familiar with all of the values yet.  At first glance, it looks like this lot of hay would be appropriate for my IR horse, Finnur, since the ESC is 4.1% and the starch is .7%, for a total of 4.8%.  Am I figuring this correctly?  I would really appreciate your opinions on if this looks like acceptable hay or if you see any "red flags".  If it looks OK, I will request that my next batch come from this lot.  I will then be testing the new batch to make sure the sugar/starch is truly at a safe level and to balance minerals.

Thanks so much for your input!
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-Jenna
August 2018, Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Finnur's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenna%20and%20Finnur
Finnur's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=68833

 

Hi Jenna,

First of all, good for you for testing your hay!!  Yes, that's correct, ESC + Starch is what we are looking for.  That looks like nice hay.  In addition to the low ESC + starch, the ADF and NDF are good.  The iron is a tad high, but easily balanced.  I'd actually be so happy if I could get hay with that iron level!  This message from Jaini will help you to get a general idea about how to assess hay:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/217649 

I also looked at your CH on Finnur and see that he is "fat" and getting free choice hay.  He sure is cute, but I agree he is too fat.  We recommend that you feed 2% of his ideal weight of 1.5% of his current weight (whichever is more) to help reduce weight.  Are you using slow feeder bags?  I also see that he is getting Barn Bag Hay Balancer.  Nice that they list the ingredients in an easily understandable format--second column in this link for 1/2 cup:  https://www.lifedatalabs.com/bb-ingredients-and-guaranteed-analysis  Unfortunately, this won't come any where near to balancing your hay and at 10.8% fat, it's way too high in fat for an IR horse!  Now that you have your hay analysis, reach out to someone on the balancing list for help getting it balanced:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/3.%20Getting%20Help%20with%20Mineral%20Balancing.pdf 

I also see in your CH that Finnur has sweet itch.  My Chancey also had horrible sweet itch before I found this group.  Once I got him on a low sugar starch mineral balanced diet the sweet itch went away.  Prior to that, I also had good results with a product called Calm Coat:  https://www.nrsworld.com/calm-coat/calm-coat-topical-spray-32oz-140746?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItYC1yunL3QIVj1uGCh09UgSsEAQYAiABEgK4D_D_BwE  I sprayed his belly (this was his worst area) first with Bactine and then applied the Calm Coat--twice a day, never miss a dose, and this routine really helped to keep things under control.  With a little math you can make your own formula for a lots less $$.  View the ingredients list here:  https://www.sstack.com/product/calm-coat-topical-spray-21624c/ 

Hope that helps!
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Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
ECIR Moderator/Primary Response

Hi Maggie - thanks so much for your very detailed reply!  This is so helpful.  I am very glad to hear that this hay looks good.  I will move forward with ordering this for my own horses.  As soon as my batch of hay arrives, I am planning to have it analyzed again (just to make sure it really is the same stuff!) and then I will reach out to one of the mineral balancing experts to work on customizing Finnur's minerals.  I had started using the Barn Bag in the spring since, at the time, I just naively knew I had to give him SOME minerals, but didn't know anything about how much/what kind.  Thanks so much for pointing out the high fat level - that's definitely not what I want!  I am stopping the use of the Barn Bag and will replace it with a customized mineral mix based on his new hay. 

Also, thanks for taking a look at my case history to give some personalized feedback!  Over the past few weeks since I discovered this group, I have been working on making some of the changes that you suggested (one baby step at a time - haha).  Finnur was getting free choice hay in slow feed nets for several years - I had bought into the idea that he should never go without hay to avoid cortisol spikes and help him self-regulate.  Well, as you can tell by his physique, he never learned to self-regulate :)  Last weekend, I built a new fence in the dry lot so I am now able to keep Finnur separated from his barn mate and feed him only his designated amount of hay each day.  Three days ago, I ended his free choice feeding and switched to weighing out his daily hay allotment.  I am basing it off an "ideal weight" of 800 lbs, so have started feeding 16 lbs of hay per day.  Does that seem appropriate for an Icelandic horse?  I am still using the slow feed hay nets to try to spread out the time he is eating, but think I may need to go to a smaller hole size now since he's going through it pretty quickly (he has a 1.5" net and can pull hay through quite easily with his nimble little lips!)  Actually seeing what a "correct" amount of hay looks like over the past few days makes me realize how much he was truly overeating before.  No wonder I haven't had any success with his weight loss!

Finally, I so appreciate the advice on managing his sweet itch!  Our bug season is winding down and he is doing a bit better now that I have him on a monthly dose of Ivermectin and regular topical applications of Equiderma (I'm not sure if his improvement is actually due to the Equiderma or just environmental conditions, but I am continuing to use it for now).  I am very hopeful that after a winter of correct hay/minerals, he won't struggle as much with it next year, but it is wonderful to have another product recommendation if I need it for the future.  I hadn't heard of Calm Coat and will definitely give it a try if we continue struggling with sweet itch. 

Once again, thank you so much for your time and advice!
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-Jenna
August 2018, Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Finnur's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenna%20and%20Finnur
Finnur's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=68833

 

Jenna, how tall is Finnur?  I "think" that my Magic (Also Icelandic) is 13.2 (although he could be 12.3, ha!) and he weighs about 600.  Just to give you some sort of comparison.  He was up close to 800 at one time several years ago.  Probably when he foundered!?!   He is doing so well now.  Spends a lot of his time chasing his donkey buddy around their dry lot.
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Ferne Fedeli

No. California

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Case History

Hi Ferne! It's great to hear from another Icelandic owner! Finnur is about 13.3 hands (he was advertised as 14 hands when I bought him but I think that was exaggerated a bit). I would say his bone structure is a bit stockier than some of the finer-boned Icelandics. I have been really unsure what an "ideal weight" for him would be since he's on the tall side for his breed and has been overweight for so long. It is helpful to hear that your Icelandic is only about 600 lbs. That makes me think that maybe I should be aiming a bit lower for Finnur's ideal weight. He is around 900 lbs now, so there is a lot of room for improvement either way!

I got a kick out of hearing that Magic loves to chase around his donkey buddy! Finnur's favorite activity is chasing around (and generally tormenting) his big quarter horse buddy! Icelandics sure do have a knack for mischief! :)

Thanks again for sharing and giving me a frame of reference for another Icelandic. I'm so glad to hear Magic is doing well now!
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-Jenna
August 2018, Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Finnur's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenna%20and%20Finnur
Finnur's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=68833

 

Jenna, your ideal weight of 800 lbs might be too much. My pony is 13h2 and is in best condition at 640 lbs. When I first got him I kept him on an old cow pasture, and in 6 months he ballooned up to 820 lbs. Fortunately my interest in clicker training led me to an Icelandic group, where I learned about IR and the fact my pony's appetite has no OFF button.
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Hi Ferne,
Weight control has been an issue with  my Icelandic gelding since I got him 9 years ago. He is a boarding situation and it has been difficult to get a workable program going, but I think we are there. He is 13.2 hands and one of the vets suggested he be no more than 750 pounds. We are heading there slowly. He is around 795 (down from 875) now and still has a crusty neck.  Have had Laminitis scares two August’s in a during very hot weather. He is now on a dry lot and gets 2 flakes a day of tested Timothy hay (NSC around 9 %), Remission, flax seed, and Blue Seal minavite lite. His neck is still cresty  so we have a ways to go. Will test him for IR in Nov after a killing frost to get  his baselines. Hoping just diet and exercise is the cure. 
Cheers, Hedy

Jenna,
I share your concern about an ideal weight for the good weight for the old style icelandic horse body plan, stocky, with big bones. 900 pounds sounds high, given that Lagsi was there when he was in a field with a round bale. Have been told that he was obese with a 9 body score. Weight gain can be so gradual that you don’t notice. I weight him every weight with a weight tape designed for standard size horses so I don’t think it is very accurate. i’ve tried 3 different tapes and am getting similar results but I think it is stolill too low given his crusty neck. adding 20 pounds to what I see on the tape seems to jive with the body score better. Just some suggestions. My horse has always been barefoot so it is obvious when he is ouch-y. He is in a shorter trimming cycles now and seems comfortable on all terrains without a rider when we go on hikes together. It’s almost time to get back in the saddle for short walks.
Cheers, Hedy

Finnur looks like BCS 6 to 6.5 in the photos. When there is any question about ideal weight, or if weight estimates are accurate, it's best to go to the BCS.  The goal is 5 so whatever the weight tape shows at BCS 5 is your target.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001