Possible Strongid C pellets side effects?


Genevieve
 

Hello,

I Started Strongid C 2x in pellets on 2018-09-27 and the following day Rose had her 2 hinds stocking up. I've been owning her since 10 years and she never swells from her legs. It really looks like a horse stocking up due to stall rest, but Rose is in her dry lot 24h/24h and not limited in her movements. No mud in there so unrelated to scratches. A bit warm but not hot. Not sensitive to touch. I tried increasing exercice with no change on hinds. Hydro helped a bit. Hydro + Absorbine helped a bit more. Hydro + Absorbine + polo overnight yields to clean legs in the morning, but they begin swelling a bit during the day.

I also noticed Rose is less comfortable on gravel, and her crest is harder. Could the alfafa/molasse in Strongid C pellets be a contributing factor of all these symptoms? Should I continue this wormer for the suggested 30 days? She still walks heels first with a long stride on asphalt.

She also has lumps on the right side of her neck. In June, I though they were mosquito bites, but 4 months later with no noticeable change, it's likely not that. Note that Rose is grey and we removed a melanoma from under her tail in the spring. She also has a reaction from her lymphatic system this summer following a gastroscopy (nose necrosis + enlarged lymphatic node). Since leg swelling seems linked to lymphatic system I though it would be pertinent to point this out.

Not sure in which direction I should be heading now with respect to worming and neck bumps. She had general blood done this summer and showed hypoproteinemia but it resolved within 2 weeks. General blood is in file if it can help. Case history file is also up-to-date if needed.

Any thoughts welcomed!
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


Gypsy Candy mom
 


--
Liz and Gypsy
November 2004, Southwest Missouri

Gypsy Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Liz%20and%20Gypsy
Gypsy Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=33181


Genevieve
 

Liz, did you want to comment? I don't see your message unfortunately.

I just added a picture of the neck lumps. We can see the hair being elevated were the lumps are. I also wanted to add that hydro + polo did not relieve the swelling that much.

Thank you!
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


Lorna Cane
 

Genevieve,what are the lumps like under the hair ?
If I saw lumps like those on my boys, my first suspicion would be ticks....not  necessarily the engorved ones, but those tiny buggers that eventually burrow into the skin.
Just a thought.

--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf

 


Genevieve
 

Hello Lorna,

Under the hair the skin surface is smooth and looks healthy. The bumps are deeper in the skin surface. The biggest one seems unattached to internal structures but as I move towards head the bumps become smaller and they seem somewhat attached. There are about 4-5 bumps. I would very much doubt these would be tick's head that stayed underneath skin because there are quite a few bumps and I never noticed any ticks in that area. Ticks thatI find are usually more hidden at the horizontal plane such as under the head. Thanks for sharing your ideas!
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


 

Hi, Genevieve.
I'd clip an area like that to get a better view using a surgical blade on my clippers. It's not a large area, won't cause any problems with rubbing. That might help you visualize the bumps better.
--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Genevieve
 

Hi Cass,
I guess I could clip the area but I doubt it would help me to go any further in the cause of the bumps. With the summer coat they were very visible, and I could still not tell what was under the skin. Would you happen to know what structures there are in that area?
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


 

Sorry, I don't. I found an image of a dissection that shows the structure immediately under the skin. Don't know if it's a help. It's a pretty complex area, right above the throat latch. The image might disturb some people, so don't look if you're one of them! https://mievzar-equus.tumblr.com/post/163211559019/whole-horse-dissection-fb-19-july-2017-nuchal
--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Genevieve
 

Thanks for the link Cass! There is indeed a lot of structures in that area, hard to tell what it is.

I'm no longer able to maintain clean legs on Rose with exercise, hydro, Absorbine and polos at night. The medial side is more swollen. And this morning she was lame in her left front leg when she was making sharp turns on hard ground. Crest is still pretty hard. And she gained 40 lbs over the last 15 days as per tape but did not gain a pound in the last 3 months despite my efforts. There must be some watery component in the gain, as her 12 ribs are still visible and tape indicates her ideal weight?

I'm seriously considering stopping the Strongid C and hoping that all symptoms will stop. I don't want to to reach a laminitic state. If not, I'll have my vet investigate the lumps as I suspect these are small melanomas which could also explain her symptoms. 

Thanks to all of you who shared your thoughts.
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


 

Good grief, poor Rose, and poor you!  I would stop the Strongid C, and see if it makes a difference (I do know that one shouldn't be stopping and starting daily feed dewormers). If it turns out to be the Strongid C, your options for tapeworms are double-dose Strongid T, or one of the products with Praziquantel (Eqvalan Gold, for example). She has been through so much lately, that you should use caution with the Praziquantel; I would go for the double-dose Strongid T.

Let us know what happens. What a heck of a summer it has been for you two!
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


 

Genevieve,
By any chance has your horse been rubbing her neck, or belly? Has she shown any indications that she is "itchy" at all?
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Genevieve
 

Hello Bonnie, no rubbing at all. The only place that might feel itchy is the hind left; I saw her scratching twice this week the front of her hock with her teeth and sometimes she seems bothered (lift leg and deposit on toe).

Jaini, I'm so glad you are comforting me in my choice to stop Strongid C, thanks a ton for your input. It has been a rough summer but hopefully that will have an end.
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


Genevieve
 

Some updates: last dose of Strongid C was on Oct 7 and the following couple of days the leg swelling decreased. However, it increased back after those 2 days. Yesterday I did a poultice with Absorbine and epsom salt and the legs were almost clean today.

Tonight Rose is colicking again. She has been laying down for 3 hours now. Not as violent as last time but still quite worry some. Something is wrong. I don't know what it is but something is just plain wrong.
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


celestinefarm
 

Rose,
I doubt this is an issue with the Strongid C at this point since you stopped it almost a week ago. I would have my vet in for a full work up. The hind leg swelling could be caused by several things, including toxicity from something in her hay, etc. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


 

Hi, Genevieve - Argh - this is just an ongoing nightmare for the two of you. I agree with Dawn - at this point, since her legs swelled when she was off the Strongid C, it likely wasn't the cause. What is going on seems to be a real mystery.  Time for the vet to come back. :(
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Genevieve
 

Friday night colic went away with Banamine. Vet came in the morning and clinical signs were good; no reflux, and rectal palpation normal. She estimated her bsc score to 3,5, which is only a gain of 0,5 on a 3-month period. We did a blood chemistry and biopsy of masses in neck. Blood turned out normal except for muscle enzymes which could be explained by the laying down and getting up during colic. Biopsy was not conclusive as it only contained epithelium cells. Vet was not comfortable in trying to remove the masses as they seem attached to the underlying muscle.

interestingly, the manure became less soft with colic and the swelling in hind legs decreased as well. I'm not ready to rule out Strongid C as a cause of swelling since the swelling is now manageable with wraps without Strongid, so that is a clear improvement.

I need brains here: what can cause a horse to loose weight (and not gain the weight it should), to have softer than usual manure (not abnormal but untypical to that specific horse), an acidic odor associated to it and to have swelling in the hinds? Vet and I are clueless on which test should be done now.
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


Genevieve
 

Rose gained weight in the belly (needed to increase blanket straps quite a bit), crest and bum, but ribs are still very visible despite winter coat growing. Would this be a typical way an IR horse gains weight?
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


Genevieve
 

Also, since Friday's colic Rose no longer has appetite for her beet pulp and supplements.
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album


Lorna Cane
 
Edited

Hi Genevieve,

Is there a reason Rosie isn't on pergolide ?....aside from the fact that I may have missed it on her CH (in which case just ignore me )?
I'm  wondering if she may be one of the horses who needs to be solidly in the middle of the 9-35 range ?

--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf

 


Genevieve
 

Hi Lorna, Rose is not on Pergolide. Here is the post discussing her last acth result: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/25110038#226221
--

Genevieve  March 2012

South of Quebec province

Rose (IR)  Case HistoryPhoto Album

Victor (PPID)  Case HistoryPhoto Album