Daisee and Cabergoline


aliby100
 

Hello.
Daisee is due for her 2nd full dose of Cabergoline tomorrow after starting at .5ml on December 27, and then 1.0ml on January 7. She seemed much better (less footsore) after the 1.0ml, which seemed to take a downturn just since Sunday. Should we still just give her the 1.0ml tomorrow, or increase it?
Thanks so much,
Alison and Diesel 2011
FOR

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee

11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Tough one! From the data available to date, on Sunday she should still have been well suppressed. How about sticking with 1.0 mL for one more but if you see the same pattern have your vet on alert to pull ACTH the day she starts to look worse again.

Any weather changes?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  Tis The Season 2 for 1 Sale
EC Owner 2001


debbiearledge@...
 

Thank you so much Dr. Kellon!  I gave Daisee 1 ml. of Cabergoline this morning.  She was feeling rather grumpy and not eating her hay, so we will see how things change for her once the Cabergoline takes effect.  I will definitely keep and eye out for patterns each day!  If she follows the same pattern as last time, I will draw blood and send it in for ACTH. 
Yes, we have had crazy weather here in Texas.  Thursday and Friday were beautiful warm days, then Saturday and Sunday were rainy and cold.
Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just a reminder to take temperature, pulse and respiration, keep an eye on things like manure output when they don't feel well and back off eating. It's easy to get tunnel vision and miss early signs of unrelated problems with other body systems.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  Tis The Season 2 for 1 Sale
EC Owner 2001


Johnson, Cathy
 

Red has been on Cabergoline since May 2018.  We have noticed the following side affects with the drug:  1.  Within an hour of the shot Red's poop turns to cow pie slop.  This lasts for about 12 hours.  2.  For at least 24 hours after the shot Red's appetite drops hugely with him only eating about 1/2 his normal hay intake.  3.  For the first 5 to 7 days after the shot Red refuses to take any treats from me or Greg.  On the second week he will take treats from Greg, but not me (I am the one that gives him the shot).  4.  For 24 to 48 hours after the shot he is very lethargic.

We did have to increase the dose from 0.9 to 1.0, then 1.1 during the seasonal rise.  When Red's PPID isn't properly controlled he immediately starts excessively drinking/peeing.  We use this as the means for determining the dose instead of paying for the ACTH test.  His next dose due this Sunday I will drop him back to 1.0 and will see what happens.

Just thought you might be interested in hearing how the drug is working for someone else.  We are very happy overall with the control of his PPID.
--
Cathy Johnson

 

Roy, WA

October 12, 2016

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cathy%20and%20Red


debbiearledge@...
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon.  That's a very good point!  It is easy to get tunnel vision, because I'm am so focused on this.  I'll check her daily.

Debbie
--

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee
Dec 11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

Photos


Naomi Preston <mustanglady80@...>
 

Hi Cathy & Dr. Kellon:
I switched to Cabergoline in May of this year on Lyrica, also.  I am considering switching back to Prascend/pergolide for the following reasons:  After getting the shot (1ml) she becomes very lethargic for 4-5 days.  After the "veil" goes away, she lies down very little, and is perky and acts like a normal horse.  I'm nearing the end of my bottle of Cabergoline now, and wondering if and how exactly I should make the switch back.  Dr. Kellon, your opinion would be so valuable!
Thank you!
Naomi & Lyrica

--
Naomi and Lyrica
Baker City, OR, USA
Mar 2018
Case History
Lyrica's Photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

When she is due for her next cabergoline just start back on her full dose of pergolide. Why did you switch?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  Tis The Season 2 for 1 Sale
EC Owner 2001


Eva
 

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:37 AM, Naomi Preston wrote:
Hi Cathy & Dr. Kellon:
I switched to Cabergoline in May of this year on Lyrica, also.  I am considering switching back to Prascend/pergolide for the following reasons:  After getting the shot (1ml) she becomes very lethargic for 4-5 days.  After the "veil" goes away, she lies down very little, and is perky and acts like a normal horse.  I'm nearing the end of my bottle of Cabergoline now, and wondering if and how exactly I should make the switch back.  Dr. Kellon, your opinion would be so valuable!
Thank you!
Naomi & Lyrica

--
Naomi and Lyrica
Baker City, OR, USA
Mar 2018
Case History
Lyrica's Photos

 Naomi I wonder if you changed the dose to 2x weekly at 1/2 of her normal weekly dose if you could lessen the side effects.  This is what we do for humans.  I don't know if Dr Kellon has any opinon on this dosing schedule?
--
Eva and Anske
October 2017 Corvallis OR
Case History Anske 9yo Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske


Naomi Preston <mustanglady80@...>
 

Dr. Kellon, thank you!  I switched due to my travel schedule, and inability to give the pergolide daily without hiring someone.  But these side effects are too long lasting.  By the time she's feeling better it's almost time for another shot,  
Naomi & Lyrica

--
Naomi and Lyrica
Baker City, OR, USA
Mar 2018
Case History
Lyrica's Photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Eva,

In instances I know of where a lower dose of cabergoline at more frequent intervals was tried it didn't work. Doesn't work with pergolide either. Horses metabolize pergolide very differently than humans and there is no accumulation over time. The same may be true for cabergoline (hasn't been studied yet). The cabergoline we are using is in a slow release base and that may be more responsible for the long duration than slow turnover of the drug.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  Tis The Season 2 for 1 Sale
EC Owner 2001


debbiearledge@...
 

Update on Daisee: 
Yesterday was day 7 on 1ml. of Cabergoline.  I'm seeing the same as last time.  She is very stiff and moving extremely slow.  Not interested in moving much at all.  She is only willing to eat her hay, nothing else.  I have not had her blood drawn which I know I need to do, but Alison and I have both been out with the nasty flu!  I will have to wait until next week to draw, unfortunately.  Dr. Kellon, what do you suggest for her next dose?  Do I stick with 1ml or move her up to 1.5ml? 
Thank you for your help.
:) Debbie and Daisee
--

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee
Dec 11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

Photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

OK. Instead of increasing the dose, try  shortening the interval to 7 or 8 days. After you're feeling better try to get organized to check ACTH on the day she is due to get an injection. Give her a dose now and then 7 or 8 days after that. From the sounds of it, you won't want to wait more than 7.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


debbiearledge@...
 

Friday will be 7 days since her last dose of 1ml. Cabergoline.  We have had no good days at all.  She is still very stiff and extremely slow moving.  Not interested in moving and only eating hay.  We are planning to draw blood for  ACTH on Friday and since it will be day 7, we will give her next dose after we draw.  Since we've had no good days, should we plan to give her 1.5ml. of Cabergoline this time?

Thanks for your help!
Debbie and Daisee
--

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee
Dec 11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

Photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

OK. Also get insulin and glucose.

What has the weather been doing? Is she wrapped and booted for cold? Can she get at dormant grass on turnout? New hay?  Just trying to cover bases other than ACTH.

Try 1.2 or 1.25.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


debbiearledge@...
 

The weather has been in the 40's mostly and then thirties and twenties at night.  She has a variety of blankets and coats and I change them out according to the "real feel".  She's been coming in to her stall at night, since its been in the twenties.  She has all four legs wrapped and boots on her feet.  She lives in a dry lot and as of now, there is nothing available for her to munch on.  I bought her hay back in June and it has been tested twice to make sure!
Is there anything else I can do?  Should I go ahead and give her 1.5 ml of the Cabergoline tomorrow?

Thank you
Debbie and Daisee


--

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee
Dec 11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

Photos


debbiearledge@...
 

Sorry Dr. Kellon, I just saw you recommended 1.2 or 1.25.  That's exactly what I'll do!
Thank you!
--

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee
Dec 11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

Photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

She has a very strong fall seasonal pattern to her insulin spikes, which in 2016 corresponded with an ACTH spike but this year didn't. The other thing that's happening then is ovarian transition. It's a little early for the spring transition to be causing problems but these mares don't follow the book. She doesn't have the most convincing symptomatic history but ovarian involvement is something to consider here too. Is she still on raspberry leaf and CTB? Why did you start those?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

P.S. The 40s and below is cold induced pain category. Consider trialing arginine and Jiaogulan.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


debbiearledge@...
 

No, Daisee is not on the raspberry leaves or the CTB.  I can't get her to eat anything, but hay at this time.  I put her on them at the time, because of her mare behavior.  She couldn't be near any other horse without squealing, kicking etc..
--

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee
Dec 11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

Photos