Date
1 - 20 of 28
Daisee and Cabergoline
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debbiearledge@...
I just got the results on Daisee's glucose, it was 107.
ACTH - 20.3 Insulin - 182.73 Glucose - 107 -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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debbiearledge@...
Do you have any suggestions about lowering her insulin levels?
-- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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If you're now thinking it was cold rather than cabergoline "wearing off", wait. Otherwise, give it.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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debbiearledge@...
Hello!
Daisee definitely has cold induced pain. Our temps yesterday were in the 70's and she was moving well. Today it's in the 30's and she is a different horse. She is stiff and had difficulty walking. The farrier came today to trim her feet, it was obvious she was uncomfortable. The farrier says her feet have changed some since her last trim. She is growing a good amount of heel and can't take her toes back as much as she'd like because of her thin soles. She suspects some dropping has occurred. I started her on Jiaogulan yesterday, so we'll see how that goes and what results we get, I ordered the Arginine and will start it asap. Her blood work came back today. ACTH-20.3 Insulin-182.73 Glucose- Vet forgot to request it. He will call today and see if they can run this. Tomorrow is Day 7 on the Cabergoline. Should I give her another 1.2ml or wait until Monday (day 10) Thank you! -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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OK. Those pads should help but if you can add even a thin cotton sock either over the hoof over over the pad itself that will help too.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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debbiearledge@...
I'm so glad we gave her the 1.2ml!! Thank you for your expertise!!!
She has soft ride boots. Should I add socks to them? They are custom fit, so not sure if anything very thick will fit. -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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Well, I'm glad you didn't give her 1.5! You said she's in boots but are they lined or with socks? Plain rubber boots aren't very warm.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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debbiearledge@...
I agree the weather is a factor. The past few days have been in the.. 60's and 70's. She has been moving really well since Friday. Now, it's hard to know if it is the 1.2ml of Cabergoline that made the difference or the warmer temperatures. I will look into purchasing the Jiaogulan and get her on it asap. I should be getting results from her blood work soon, too.
Thank you so much for your continuous help!!! -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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debbiearledge@...
No, Daisee is not on the raspberry leaves or the CTB. I can't get her to eat anything, but hay at this time. I put her on them at the time, because of her mare behavior. She couldn't be near any other horse without squealing, kicking etc..
-- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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P.S. The 40s and below is cold induced pain category. Consider trialing arginine and Jiaogulan.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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She has a very strong fall seasonal pattern to her insulin spikes, which in 2016 corresponded with an ACTH spike but this year didn't. The other thing that's happening then is ovarian transition. It's a little early for the spring transition to be causing problems but these mares don't follow the book. She doesn't have the most convincing symptomatic history but ovarian involvement is something to consider here too. Is she still on raspberry leaf and CTB? Why did you start those?
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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debbiearledge@...
Sorry Dr. Kellon, I just saw you recommended 1.2 or 1.25. That's exactly what I'll do!
Thank you! -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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debbiearledge@...
The weather has been in the 40's mostly and then thirties and twenties at night. She has a variety of blankets and coats and I change them out according to the "real feel". She's been coming in to her stall at night, since its been in the twenties. She has all four legs wrapped and boots on her feet. She lives in a dry lot and as of now, there is nothing available for her to munch on. I bought her hay back in June and it has been tested twice to make sure!
Is there anything else I can do? Should I go ahead and give her 1.5 ml of the Cabergoline tomorrow? Thank you Debbie and Daisee -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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OK. Also get insulin and glucose.
What has the weather been doing? Is she wrapped and booted for cold? Can she get at dormant grass on turnout? New hay? Just trying to cover bases other than ACTH. Try 1.2 or 1.25. -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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debbiearledge@...
Friday will be 7 days since her last dose of 1ml. Cabergoline. We have had no good days at all. She is still very stiff and extremely slow moving. Not interested in moving and only eating hay. We are planning to draw blood for ACTH on Friday and since it will be day 7, we will give her next dose after we draw. Since we've had no good days, should we plan to give her 1.5ml. of Cabergoline this time?
Thanks for your help! Debbie and Daisee -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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OK. Instead of increasing the dose, try shortening the interval to 7 or 8 days. After you're feeling better try to get organized to check ACTH on the day she is due to get an injection. Give her a dose now and then 7 or 8 days after that. From the sounds of it, you won't want to wait more than 7.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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debbiearledge@...
Update on Daisee:
Yesterday was day 7 on 1ml. of Cabergoline. I'm seeing the same as last time. She is very stiff and moving extremely slow. Not interested in moving much at all. She is only willing to eat her hay, nothing else. I have not had her blood drawn which I know I need to do, but Alison and I have both been out with the nasty flu! I will have to wait until next week to draw, unfortunately. Dr. Kellon, what do you suggest for her next dose? Do I stick with 1ml or move her up to 1.5ml? Thank you for your help. :) Debbie and Daisee -- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee |
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Eva,
In instances I know of where a lower dose of cabergoline at more frequent intervals was tried it didn't work. Doesn't work with pergolide either. Horses metabolize pergolide very differently than humans and there is no accumulation over time. The same may be true for cabergoline (hasn't been studied yet). The cabergoline we are using is in a slow release base and that may be more responsible for the long duration than slow turnover of the drug. -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com Tis The Season 2 for 1 Sale |
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Naomi Preston <mustanglady80@...>
Dr. Kellon, thank you! I switched due to my travel schedule, and inability to give the pergolide daily without hiring someone. But these side effects are too long lasting. By the time she's feeling better it's almost time for another shot,
Naomi & Lyrica -- Naomi and Lyrica Baker City, OR, USA Mar 2018 Case History Lyrica's Photos |
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On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:37 AM, Naomi Preston wrote:
Naomi I wonder if you changed the dose to 2x weekly at 1/2 of her normal weekly dose if you could lessen the side effects. This is what we do for humans. I don't know if Dr Kellon has any opinon on this dosing schedule? -- Eva and Anske October 2017 Corvallis OR Case History Anske 9yo Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske |
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