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2nd Try: Question About Relevante's Newest ACTH Results

Lynn
 

Relevante's new ACTH results show elevated numbers for the first time since diagnosis in Feb. 2018. Numbers have been steadily going down with his test in July 2019 the lowest yet at 18.9 pg/mL. His test for November 2019 is 32.3 pg/mL. This year marked our second foray into the seasonal rise and I made the decision not to raise his pergolide dosage (which is 2 mg compounded pergolide) due to the extreme behavior he exhibited at the higher doses....(see #240031, 227263, 227344, 227205, 228335, 229706 for full threads on that..LOL). The final word from Dr. K was that if thiamine didn't make a difference in 2 weeks to lower him to 2 mg compounded pergolide (from 2.5) and continue to test. I have, he has been himself and his numbers have continued to come down until now. I have also carefully watched him for symptoms. He has no visible signs of uncontrolled PPID. No crest (in fact my vet was commenting on this latest visit how that has disappeared), no goopy eyes, no swollen sheath, no swelling above the eyes, no skin sensitivity, no nothing. His feet are great and we are continuing to ride. He is bright and engaged. No lethargy. Took him for a 30-minute hand walk yesterday up and down a hill and he sashayed around and performed a couple bucks then danced back down the hill on our first "set." The only thing he still has is a loss of topline but that didn't change even when i bumped him up to 3 mg compounded pergolide (he just started acting like a horse on LSD). Both the vet and the chiropractor believe the topline situation is loss of muscle due to lack of activity over the last nearly two years we've been working to get back to exercising.  So...is this elevation due to the rise? Should i be concerned or wait until January to retest when my vet comes back out?
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Lynn,

A reading of 32.3pg/ml in Nov in a known PPID horse who is well managed and not having any difficulties is a perfectly fine number. There is a reason for seasonal rise as it is a prep for the upcoming winter season and in "normal horses", readings in the mid-forties are the adjusted OK range. Allowing for some variation in the levels is not a bad thing if the horse isn't reacting negatively to that slight rise. I think you made a good call not raising his dose this time around based on his extreme behavioral reaction at a higher dose. Managing these horses is part science, part art and you need to pay attention to the whole picture, not just the snapshots in time that the blood work highlights. You are really good at knowing how Relevante is feeling and listening to that is part of the "Art" aspect. Just keep it in the back of your mind mind for next year in case there are any vague changes in his general demeanor that might signal a need to get things a bit tighter.

If this was one of mine, I'd be happy, leave the dose as it is, then retest in April/May. ACTH has peaked and is moving downward at this point so his is extremely unlikely to be doing anything untoward now.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team

Lynn
 

Thank you so much Lavinia! I feel greatly relieved! I was afraid I had made a mistake but we will soldier on as you have indicated. I will let my vet know too as he was curious to see what the opinion would be from the experts here. 
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Lynn,

You might try bumping up his protein even higher than what's in the CA Trace Plus to help his topline.   He might like split peas, or you can try Uckele's Tri-Amino.  On paper,  the CA Trace Plus covers his protein needs,  but the hay alone doesn't.   Giving him some extra is worth a try. 

I've noticed the hay your barn brings in is lower in protein than what I see in this area normally. 

For the benefit of others reading this,  I balance for Lynn,  but her barn switches hay frequently.  To her credit,  she spends the money to test each batch,  so we always knows that it is safe, but it's not always perfectly balanced. 

Carol Broyles 
Spring Valley,  Ohio 
August 2007

Lynn
 

Carol - these are great suggestions that i will certainly implement especially now that our riding is likely to be limited primarily to the arena due to weather. Do you have a source for the split peas?
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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I do not know of a local source that sells them in bulk. You could see if he likes them by getting a small bag from Kroger.   If he does,  then order a large 20+ lb. bag online. 

Most horses like them straight out of the bag.   You can start with a cup a day. 

Carol Broyles 
Spring Valley Ohio 
August 2007

 

Lynn, if Relevante likes them and if poultry farms are nearby, find a feed store that caters to them. A 50 lb bag of split peas (they may be called feed peas) was under $30 last time I bought them. They probably cost more now if they are imported from Canada. You need to store them in a cool, dry location and take them to the barn in batches. 
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Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 

Tanna
 

Was very happy to read Lavinia's response above and I think you are doing a fabulous job managing Relevante's journey Lynn. :)

I am using an amino acid supplement ( https://basicequinenutrition.ca/product/amino-max-extra-strength) for additional protein which I gather is similar to the one mentioned above. Would peas be a better option than such supplements?


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Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 

Lynn
 

Thanks Carol, Cass and Tanna! 

Certainly could not do any of this without the knowledge, expertise and support of this group! I'll grab a bag at Krogers and see what he thinks on Thursday when i go to the barn. If he likes them I think it would be a great thing to add to his Stabul 1/supplements. Thanks for the tips on how much to start with and how to store it if it works. (LOL)
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Mine did not so don’t indulge too heavily before trying them.  Fortunately I like split pea soup.
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Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

Lorna Cane
 

I added split (or whole) green peas to my herd's buckets for years. Whole peas from feed store were more financially viable. No complaints from anyone.

I began grinding them as the boys aged into their late 30's and early 40's,  wondering about their chewing abilities.
I still use the ground peas from time-to-time, as taste tempter , if needed.


Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002


 

Lynn
 

Good to know Lorna...I'll start with a small bag per Martha's advice and see what he does. I also have a coffee grinder if I need to do that. I'm excited to try this.
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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