Toxic plants - fleabane?


rebecca.ann.crowe@...
 

As we search for any underlying causes of our herd's founder, I've been looking at some of the plants in our hay field to check for toxicity since none of them are on green pasture. I'm familiar with the 'big names' in plants toxic to horses, and we know we have none or minimal amounts of those. I've come across a lot of daisy fleabane (erigeron annuus) in our fields. There is some indication that it can cause skin irritation when touched and gastrointestinal symptoms, neither of which we have. Does anyone know if it can cause inflammation or anything else that would trigger laminitis when ingested?

https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=ERAN

Or, do you know of any other less-well-known culprits I could check for?
Many thanks!
-
Becky Crowe
Luck, Wisconsin, USA
Joined July 2019
Thunder Case History
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Lorna Cane
 

Hi Becky,

Not to say that there is not an issue with plants.
But if you are able to focus on Lavinia's awesome advice about the hoof issues,and get their trims where they need to be, I am positive you will be gobsmacked by improvement in comfort levels and hoof health.


--

Lorna  in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf


 


rebecca.ann.crowe@...
 

Thank you. Yes, I am certain of that as well. I’m not searching for a replacement of that intervention or diminishing that information.  We are taking that seriously, and it is in progress. 

The overarching research is based on the fact that of the seven horses we have in our herd, five now have ongoing issues where they didn’t before. Two have developed them acutely after being with us for a few years having had no previous problems at their former homes. I realize that can be like trying to unravel a tangled web given the amount of factors we have to account for. Our hay analysis results should be back this week, and toxicity is another avenue I’m exploring based on how widespread it is in our herd despite long term dietary intervention prior to reaching out here. 
--
Becky Crowe
Luck, Wisconsin, USA
Joined July 2019
Thunder Case History
Thunder Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93211
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Lorna Cane
 

Hi Becky,

You will also notice  much-desired results , too, after you get your hay results back( well done!) and can get the minerals into them which are needed to balance their hay. You will be able to feed the required minerals,in proper ratios, the latter being really important.

Good for you for getting things rolling.😊


--

Lorna  in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf


 


rebecca.ann.crowe@...
 

For sure. Thank you! I will update once we have results.

In the meantime, it would be neglectful of me to not cover all possibilities. If anyone does have information on this or other plants to look for, it would be much appreciated. 
--
Becky Crowe
Luck, Wisconsin, USA
Joined July 2019
Thunder Case History
Thunder Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93211
Soozee Case History
Soozee Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93212
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Lorna Cane
 

"I will update once we have results."

Is everything else updated  aside from the results, Becky? I wasn't sure,as I was looking for details,especially nutritional.

For you,and others reading, everything you can add will help,even without test results.


-





Lorna  in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf


 


 

There are multiple lists online. This list is nice because it’s illustrated.
https://walworth.extension.wisc.edu/files/2014/03/A4019_ToxicPlantsWisconsinPasturesForages.pdf
This one is really extensive but probably contains many plants that only grow outside your region. https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control/horse-plant-list

Sorry the links are so wonky using my iPhone. 
--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
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rebecca.ann.crowe@...
 

Lorna,
Yes, the case histories are up-to-date if I'm understanding correctly.  If I'm not, please let me know.  All of their hay, feed, and supplements are listed.
I meant I will update as we get the hay analysis and once I start Thunder on Prascend.  I also ordered chaste tree berry for the other two but have not yet received it but will update once they start taking it.  Thanks!
--
Becky Crowe
Luck, Wisconsin, USA
Joined July 2019
Thunder Case History
Thunder Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93211
Soozee Case History
Soozee Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93212
Frodo Case History


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hoary alyssum is the major weed associated with laminitis but there is no toxicity that will  only cause laminitis with no other signs (fever and stocking up with Hoary alyssum) and no toxicity that causes EMS.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


rebecca.ann.crowe@...
 

Thank you! We did put our hay fields back into a crop rotation for two years to eliminate a minimal amount of hoary alyssum, and that has worked to eradicate it. I'm working to cover all my bases to address other factors while we implement the trim and wait for our hay analysis. We haven't had fever and very little stocking up, so the hoary alyssum is an unlikely factor at this point. Thanks again!
--
Becky Crowe
Luck, Wisconsin, USA
Joined July 2019
Thunder Case History
Thunder Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93211
Soozee Case History
Soozee Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93212
Frodo Case History


Tucker
 

On this topic...are there any herbs or plants that would be beneficial to plant for our horses in a paddock paradise situation inside the perimeter? Thanks!!

--
Tucker and Indigo
NC, Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tucker%20and%20Indigo 
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E Sarah Howell
 

Hi Tucker
I've asked a similar question on the Housekeeping sub group.  I'm interested in creating some variety in my paddocks, maybe just around the edges and corners, which would provide some more mixed grazing to increase the mineral content of my horses' diet.  My grass (and therefore my hay) is low in minerals and as a consequence I need to feed lots of supplements to balance their diet.  If they could source some of it naturally, that would be great.  

Nettle is well known of course - but high in iron so to be avoided.  But what else might be suitable for horses and high in (good) minerals ?

I'd be interested to hear ideas from anyone on the group.  
--
E Sarah Howell

Cambridgeshire UK
2018


Nancy C
 

I just posted this on Horsekeeping but will do so here too.

To keep this on topic, ECIR Does not recommend green growing things for EMS with uncontrolled insulin.

Amending the soil to actual tested needs, will help grow better and more hay.

Personally, I have seen huge help with both major and trace minerals by doing this.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Didn't Katherine Watts show sugar analyses of several weed species in one of her articles on safer grass.org, and some of them were alarmingly high?  Dandelions come to mind.  I have also heard nettle and thistle heads are high in sugar.  Based on that limited sampling of weeds she did, and without extensive work and analysis of weed species under all possible conditions (a big undertaking, which you can certainly do), in my opinion weeds can be just as risky or worse than grass for triggering laminitis and I agree with Nancy that "no green growing things" should be fed to horses with known metabolic problems.  Then there is the unknown of too much minerals, like iron as you mentioned.

I know in the UK the idea of horses self-selecting plants with minerals and healing properties on a track system or horse-centric is quite popular in the natural horse keeping model and there is likely more pressure there to try it than in North America, but I personally wouldn't chance it with my own horse unless we were training for endurance riding (ie MAJOR daily exercise) and his insulin was totally under control.  That's why we balance the minerals we feed to their hay, based on the best available information we have for equine nutrition...if done correctly there should be no need to supplement with mineral-rich growing plants in horses that have metabolic issues. 

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada
January 2019

Shaku's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kirsten%20and%20Shaku  
 

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Bonnie
 

Re self-selection of plants on a track: My track has some species that are eaten when the haybags get empty. My pony seems to go after them either when out of hay, or because they are blocking access to sprigs of grass that have sprouted. For example he ignored the dead-nettle until it became dry and excessively bristly. He now picks it up (discards it after nibbling) but is removing it to seek tiny grass tufts appearing after rain. He also self-selects TOXIC plants, namely the pin cherry and choke cherry leaves that are beginning to get blown into the track from surrounding forest. Vinegar spray, rake and hoe are needed to keep him from selecting potential harm.
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008