Date
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Gunnar declining
Hello,
Gunnar is now 28, and has been doing great Cushings wise; however, after I had his teeth floated he seemed to decline...at least that is my observation. His body condition has declined, and so has his coat. He is currently on 4 mg of Prascend. I had increased him to 5, because his sheath was getting so swollen. While he was on 5 mg, I had him tested and his numbers indicated to the vet that maybe 5 was too much, and that could have caused the decline, or maybe he was having liver issues. So, we did bloodwork and nothing was out of he norm. He is still not gaining weight, and is getting plenty of calories from hay, etc. Is this how it ends...slow decline, because pergolide is no longer effective? I know that my case history needs updating, so I will work on that, as well as post the results. I also, put him on APF Plus.
Thank you!
Carla
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Carla
Gunnar is now 28, and has been doing great Cushings wise; however, after I had his teeth floated he seemed to decline...at least that is my observation. His body condition has declined, and so has his coat. He is currently on 4 mg of Prascend. I had increased him to 5, because his sheath was getting so swollen. While he was on 5 mg, I had him tested and his numbers indicated to the vet that maybe 5 was too much, and that could have caused the decline, or maybe he was having liver issues. So, we did bloodwork and nothing was out of he norm. He is still not gaining weight, and is getting plenty of calories from hay, etc. Is this how it ends...slow decline, because pergolide is no longer effective? I know that my case history needs updating, so I will work on that, as well as post the results. I also, put him on APF Plus.
Thank you!
Carla
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Carla
December 2013, WI
Cupcake and Gunnar's Case Histories
Ω
Hi Carla,
Sorry to hear this about Gunnar.
Please let us know when his CH is updated, in hopes of our being able to suss out what will help to get him feeling better.
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Sorry to hear this about Gunnar.
Please let us know when his CH is updated, in hopes of our being able to suss out what will help to get him feeling better.
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Lorna in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf
Hello Lorna,
I did upload his recent test results, other than that things have been status quo...with that said, do we need to download/save the case history...save and repost?
Thank you!
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Carla
I did upload his recent test results, other than that things have been status quo...with that said, do we need to download/save the case history...save and repost?
Thank you!
--
Carla
December 2013, WI
Cupcake and Gunnar's Case Histories
Ω
Oh, I must have done something wrong,Carla.
I only see entries from 2016. Maybe i'm on the wrong device .
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I only see entries from 2016. Maybe i'm on the wrong device .
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Lorna in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf
Sherry Morse
Hi Lorna,
Test results are here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carla%20and%20Cupcake%20-%20Gunnar/Gunnar/Blood%20Work%20Results/Peters_GUNNAR_ACTH_Chemistry_07.08.19.pdf not in the case history.
Carla, this is the reason we ask for the case history to be updated so we don't have to go searching for information. Is he still being fed the exact same feed and hay as in 2016?
Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response
PA 2014
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet/Scutch%20Case%20History.pdf
Sherry Morse
Carla,
If the test results you posted are from when he was on 5mg of Prascend and he had been on that dose for at least 3 weeks I wouldn't say that it was too much, but the correct amount for him.
I am guessing you didn't test him when he was on the 4mg so you don't have numbers to compare? IF you had tested him and those numbers were elevated and you increased his dose and the numbers didn't decrease then the Prascend might not be effective any longer but there are other options besides Prascend in that case.
What is his current weight? Have you increased his hay as he's lost weight? Why do you think something happened after his teeth were done?
Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response
PA 2014
Oh,I was looking in the case history.
Bloodwork in case history needs to be updated. Otherwise people are having to guess where to look,and probably won't have the time to do that.
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Bloodwork in case history needs to be updated. Otherwise people are having to guess where to look,and probably won't have the time to do that.
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Lorna in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf
Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Carla,
Because he was fine before the teeth floating but seemed to decline afterward makes it suspicious that something related to the floating is the problem rather than his PPID. Is Gunnar quidding? Was he sedated for his teeth floating? If so, do you know what sedative was used? Were there any problems found? Do you know exactly what was done during the floating?
It's possible that too much was done to his teeth so that he no longer has enough grinding surface left to be able to process his food well. If that is the case, then chopped/cubed/pelleted forages may be needed to help him out instead of long stem hay. Making all his feeds wet and sloppy will also make them easier to digest.
According to the blood work, his ACTH is perfect so if he was on the 5mg of pergolide at that time then it's the correct dose for him, not too much. If anything, with the seasonal rise coming up, he might even need another bump up as we get fully into it.
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Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team
Because he was fine before the teeth floating but seemed to decline afterward makes it suspicious that something related to the floating is the problem rather than his PPID. Is Gunnar quidding? Was he sedated for his teeth floating? If so, do you know what sedative was used? Were there any problems found? Do you know exactly what was done during the floating?
It's possible that too much was done to his teeth so that he no longer has enough grinding surface left to be able to process his food well. If that is the case, then chopped/cubed/pelleted forages may be needed to help him out instead of long stem hay. Making all his feeds wet and sloppy will also make them easier to digest.
According to the blood work, his ACTH is perfect so if he was on the 5mg of pergolide at that time then it's the correct dose for him, not too much. If anything, with the seasonal rise coming up, he might even need another bump up as we get fully into it.
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Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team
I totally agree with what everyone else has said. Bloodwork was perfect and wouldn't change pergolide dose. The pergolide is not causing this. Most TBs and TB cross are difficult to keep weight on. Gunnar was a nice lean BCS 5 in 2017. Add age-related decline in digestive efficiency, tooth wear and overly aggressive dentistry. His blood work is excellent, no signs of organ decline.
I would add Triple Crown Senior to his diet and make it as wet as he will tolerate. Slowly work up to 6 to 8 lbs/day in multiple meals with free choice hay and see how he does on that.
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Eleanor in PA
I would add Triple Crown Senior to his diet and make it as wet as he will tolerate. Slowly work up to 6 to 8 lbs/day in multiple meals with free choice hay and see how he does on that.
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Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Owner 2001
Hello,
I am going to attempt to provide answers to your questions, on one response, and thank you! ☺️
This vet does minimal dental correction, only adjusts the bite and/or sharp edges...I must admit that I am a novice in the dentistry area.
Gunnar doesn’t quid, but he is a big time “dropsy”, as he takes a bite and chews and looks around. He also scoots his grain out. Any suggestions there would be great!
Lavinia, he had domosedan (sp)? I can check the amount and what else, if any.
Dr. Kellon, your are right regarding his breed...he has always been challenging to keep weight on. I will start increasing his TC senior and wetting it.
Gunnar gets free choice hay daily...as much as he will eat.
I will titrate his dose back up to 5.
I can check on the ACTH testing when he was on 4mg. ☺️
Thank you for all of your help and suggestions!
Carla
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Carla
December 2013, WI
Cupcake and Gunnar's Case Histories
Ω
One dentistry issue I neglected to mention in addition to aggressive corrections is the use of a speculum. TMJ pain from speculum use can last weeks to months.
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Eleanor in PA
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Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Owner 2001