Date
1 - 20 of 23
Blessing: New numbers; we're losing ground
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Sherry Morse
Just throwing this out in terms of flavors that horses seem to prefer. I recall a similar study years ago (and with larger numbers) had a similar result - favorite flavors tended to be anise, apple and peppermint. Thanks, PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet/Scutch%20Case%20History.pdf |
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On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 05:24 PM, Helen Connor wrote:
Ms B won't touch the apple-flavored CP, so PHP is shipping plain (unflavored) pills this next time.By coincidence, I had the same problem with apple flavoring. Molasses flavor smells like maple syrup. PHP let me change flavoring without a new prescription from the vet, but you do need to catch them 10 days before the compounding date. For the seasonal rise I'm feeding 1 nasty-tasting Prascend mixed with 1 capsule of delicious Molasses flavored CP without any problem when mixed with CocoSoya. HTH. -- Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR) Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12 Cayuse Case History Cayuse Photos Diamond Case History Diamond Photos |
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Helen Connor
Hi Cass, What a smart idea! Blessing loves CocoSoya. This could work (for a while anyway). Ms B won't touch the apple-flavored CP, so PHP is shipping plain (unflavored) pills this next time. Should get here in a couple of days. My guess would be that the CocoSoya and maybe a bit of Omega Fields ground, stabilized flax seed will seem very appetizing to her. Thanks for the idea! Helen
-- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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Helen Connor
Thanks Sherry, it looks like a winner! I'll order one and try it. Helen
-- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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Helen Connor
Hi Lorna,
Yes, I've used both in the past. They worked while they worked, but no longer. This mare is my life mentor, I think. She puts me through a lot but I learn a lot too. Thanks for your thoughtful recommendations, Helen -- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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Helen, do you have flavoring in your CP? I switched to molasses flavoring and then tried Bonnie's suggestion to dissolve in Uckele CocoSoya oil. I dissolve the molasses flavored CP in about a teaspoon of water and then mix it into a tablespoon of CocoSoya. I pour this onto a small pile of softened Stabul1 pellets. Cayuse gobbles it and licks the pan clean. High point of her day.
-- Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR) Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12 Cayuse Case History Cayuse Photos Diamond Case History Diamond Photos |
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Sherry Morse
Helen, This may be a bit of overkill for a pill that can be dissolved in 2cc or so of water, but if getting the syringe in is an issue I highly recommend a dosing syringe like this one: https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=487A8E94-F6A4-441A-A2EA-348B93077098. Fortunately while my mare wouldn't eat a pill of anything she wasn't awful to be syringed so we just dissolved the pills and used a small syringe to get them in her. Thanks, PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet/Scutch%20Case%20History.pdf |
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Helen Connor
Didn't realize I could do that. Instead, I packed a little extra baby food peas behind the mixture with the medicine in it. Like your idea better. Thanks!
-- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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Helen, some horses don't like flavoured items the way we might. Maybe plain is worth a try?
I bet you've tried that though. If you're using capsules have you tried removing half the peanut from its shell, and substituting a capsule? Don't need to answer.Just a thought. -- Lorna in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
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On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 01:08 PM, Deb Walker wrote:
I wish I would have known 2 years ago what I am now learning and I would have made different choices from the get go.That's why ECIR is here. Below is on compounded pergolide. http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2010/z9100110000274.pdf This is also a good document to answer many pergolide questions https://www.ecirhorse.org/pergolide.php ECIR has also done it's own testing on caps that found 95+% efficacy. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer 2019-2020 Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA |
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Deb Walker
Jaini - Thank you for that info. I kept the medi-melts in an a/c room in a dark cupboard, but if opening the bottle every day causes them to lose strength that would be significant. I have been keeping the Prascend in a mud-room, not a/c, but based on all of this info I believe I will store it in the dark cupboard mentioned above going forward. I would worry about refrigerated air causing moisture.
Dr. Kellon - That is exceptionally interesting concerning the liquid version, as that is all Scotty got for the first almost 2 years. Have studies been done on the stability of compounded formulas in capsules? I wish I would have known 2 years ago what I am now learning and I would have made different choices from the get go. -- Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619 |
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Helen Connor
Hi Kathy. Thanks for your kind suggestions. Some horses seem to take changes in stride. Not Blessing. I've used hollowed out carrots, cucumber, small chunks of apple; homemade horse cookies; Beet-E-Bites; and even handmade hay and herb wraps to pique her interest and get her to take the medicine. But only for a short time with each one. Once she's discovered the pergo, she won't accept the veggie or cookie again, even if the pergo is not there.
I syringed her last night for the first time using a small amount of baby food peas. It took about three minutes to get her to let me put the syringe in her mouth. Once she could taste the apple-flavored pergo (all I have at the moment), it was all over. I offered her a sprig of Italian parsley, which normally loves. She wouldn't touch it. Today, I'll practice getting her to accept the peas and the syringe. I think the critical thing for her is desensitization. She's lost trust in me when it comes to food treats. Once I can rebuild that, we'll be fine. -- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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Helen Connor
Thanks, Jaini! I'm moving my powdered pergo to the cupboard now!
Helen -- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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A reminder that when giving pergolide by syringe make sure you have an air bubble behind the water or whatever you are using to force all of it through the tip of the syringe.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Hi Helen,
Other members have reported here that dissolving pergolide dissolved into water and using a syringe to dose it, followed by a treat works well for horses that are distrustful of eating it. -- Kirsten Rasmussen Kitimat, BC, Canada January 2019 Shaku's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kirsten%20and%20Shaku Shaku's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82559&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0 |
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Kathy Thomas
Hi, Helen,
I have had success with inserting the pergolide into a small pice of hollowed out carrot. Also, Equi Bites work. They are like tiny muffins made from beet pulp. They have a little hole in the top to insert the meds. Good luck. BTDT! -- Kathy 2017 and Donna Harrowsmith, Ontario https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna |
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Pergolide stability
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19210262 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23966481 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21507864 Note that this one shows that pergolide stored at 35 degrees Celsius = 95 degrees Farenheit will lose 10% of potency (ie, will be only 90% as potent as it was at compounding) after only 3 days. This is significant for storage in hot climates. -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Hi, Deb and all! For best stability, use either Prascend or capsules. Store in a cool, dark, and dry environment. (I have my capsules in a yogurt container on the door of the fridge, with rice in the bottom, plus silica packs to prevent moisture buildup). |
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Deb Walker
Very interesting Dr. Kellon about liquid pergolide, which I had been using on Scotty for the past year, before going to Prascend, and then to Wedgewood Medimelts, and now, until testing, back to Prascend.
I wish I could understand all the compounding guidelines, and best to use. Helen...I hope these guidelines will work for you!!! -- Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619 |
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