let me see if I got this straight....


norcalpintabians
 

If my ppid horse is having inflammation in his front hooves (pain), (and other signs of IR)
and his ppid is still uncontrolled (recently increased from 2mg - 5mg),
Diet is tight... (No feed over 9% nsc, no grazing, etc).
Then we need to increase the pergolide, yes?
Im only asking because my vet is reluctant to increase. She wants to treat the inflammation with bute and boots :( 
Thank you.
ps. I had blood drawn for ACTH, glucose, insulin about a month ago, but no results yet.


--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Please go here https://www.ecirhorse.org/proceedings-2017.php and download the following proceedings for your vet (they're free)

- EMS and inflammation
- Endocrinopathic laminitis: How is it different?
- Acute care for endocrinopathic laminitis

Inflammation is not the problem - high insulin is.

You can try soaking your hay even  if below 9%. That benefits some horses when they are in crisis. Otherwise, yes, you need to get the PPID under control or it will continue to drive high insulin.

Trim is also very important.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

P.S. If you would like the power point presentations from that meeting too, drop me a mail.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


norcalpintabians
 

Thank you Eleanor!
She is open minded, so Im sure we can get her on board with the right information.
Knight is eating cubes right now, (dental issues), and lmf low carb complete. I soak and drain the cubes, so I think they are well below the 9% (I am preparing to send in samples for testing. both soaked, and unsoaked)
My farrier changed the trim almost a year ago and he has been sound since then (trimming every 6 weeks). He did have more growth this last trim, so his toes were a bit longer than usual. We are going back to trimming every 3 weeks to shorten the toe.
I will get this information to her asap!
Thanks again!

--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


ferne fedeli
 

You should have your vet check with Cornell on your test results.  I always get the results back from my vet in about a week--at the most 10 days.
--

Ferne Fedeli     2007

No. California
Case History

Regional Members Database Coordinator

 - see who is near you

Add your contact information if you want to help out/meet ECIR members in your area.

 


norcalpintabians
 

my vet didnt do the last blood test. It was free from another vet, as part of a study. They told me it would take 3 weeks for results. Its been over 4 weeks and I asked them about it, and they said "its at the lab and out of our hands now. we will call when we have results".

--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


LJ Friedman
 

Part of what study?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


norcalpintabians
 

Im not sure. Contact Loomis Basin Veterinary in Loomis, CA. They have been testing hundreds of horses this summer and fall. I think they are trying to make it so they can run the tests in house??? Im not sure.

--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


Helen Temps
 

It took 5 weeks for me to get report from the July draw, 4 weeks from the August draw.  Was told they hadn’t expected so many draws and were a bit overwhelmed 
--

Helen Temps and Chloe  June 2017
Placerville, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Chloe.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6929


norcalpintabians
 

my vet is reviewing the proceedings this weekend and she is coming out tomorrow for an in-house glucose test :) 
Im hoping she will be agreeable to increasing his pergolide!
I will keep you posted. Thank you!
--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

Why is the vet pulling a glucose test? It is insulin and ACTH that are the ones you really need to know. Glucose by itself won't tell you much as most horses don't have elevated glucose levels. A glucose reading is useful when you pull insulin at the same time so you can compare the relationship between the two values.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


norcalpintabians
 

Im not sure why the glucose test, maybe she meant insulin? she is coming this afternoon, I will ask her.
--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


norcalpintabians
 

My vet isnt coming today. We talked and she agrees that a glucose test wont help us. But she DID agree to increase his pergolide :) so we will go from 5-6mg and see what happens.

(She did make an interesting observation. It seems like he does better when we increase the pergolide, but then he gets worse again. Is this just because its a progressive disease and we havent gotten it under control yet? She suspects that the compounded capsules lose potency. I dont agree, since he did very well for several months at 2mg. We are currently getting our compounded capsules from Pet Health Pharmacy in Arizona.)

Thank you to everyone who responded. Id be lost without your help!!!!!

--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


Candice Piraino
 

HI Susan,

Could you please expand more on how you keep your pergolide? Is it encapsulated? Where do you store it? How many days do you have and purchase at one time? This may shed some light on the issue, or it may not. 
--

~ Candice 

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

 


norcalpintabians
 

My vet made that comment about the pergolide losing potency (I dont agree). Each time we test his ACTH it has gone up, with exception of the first "re-test". Honestly, I just think he needs a higher dosage and she is trying to find another reason as to why its not under control (his ACTH has never been near normal range)
To answer your questions:
I buy compounded pergolide in capsules and keep it in the door of my refrigerator , (it has a vegetable saver bin with low humidity.)
I am buying 30 capsules at a time, but I used to buy 100 (he was doing ok at that time)
I asked Pet Health Pharmacy about the issue and they swear that their compounds are tested for potency. And they retain full potency for 6 months. They also stated that they do not have to be refrigerated. But they should be kept out of direct sunlight.



--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655