I am following up on my concerns for Julie's weight loss and intermittent laminitis. I read the articles recommended by Jaini and became suspicious of my mare having polycystic ovaries as I had been suspicious of low grade laminitis symptoms during these times..(.or just my imagination?) So I booked an appt with my vet and she had an ultrasound on Sept 21st. She had to lightly sedate my mare for the procedure but said her one ovary had a large follicle of 4.5cm diameter and the other may have had more than one. We discussed her heat cycles but I could not say if she was regular since it is hard to tell when she is in heat. I did see an obvious heat cycle lasting 5 days this past August where she urinated excessively and was interested in my gelding on other side of fence.  But for the most part, she doesn't show much or I am just not that observant. Whereas my senior pony screams, kicks fence, and goes off feed when in estrus.

My vet had not heard of laminitis secondary to estrus issues. We discussed spaying costs and risks  but that is not a route I want to take. She could not really say my mare had polycystic ovaries but only that she will ovulate soon. 

My vet did not think she was terribly skinny either. She agreed to a 4/9 on Henneke but not a 3. Her teeth were checked but were fine.(They were filed in March last.) She thought her feet looked better than in March but we took lateral front rads anyway. There is improved sole depth under the coffin bone and about 2/3rd good connection. Stated L front 6 degrr rot..tip of CB to hoof wall was 2.8cm and sole depth from tip was 1.2cm. The R front had 7 deg rot with 3.4cm from CB to front wall and depth under CB at tip was 1.9cm. I did add these pictures to Julie's history. 

Her bloodwork from Idexx came back frim Sept 8th blook draw at 2pm (fed her hay nets at 8am so had small at feed left)...
Total T4=1.9 (range 1.0-3.8ug/dL)
Endogenous ACTH=15 (9-35pg/mL) and had been on 2.5 pergolide since Sept 1st. 
Glucose=5.1 (4.2-6.4mmol/L)
Insulin=17.3 (4.5-20uIU/ml) lowest it has been since 2016!!     I:G ratio =25  Updated in Case Hx.
 
An equine blood panrl was done on the 21st also.  CBC normal. All chemistries normal except low total protein.  Fibrinogen normal. A gastroscope was not recommended. 
 
My vet suggested oil to increase calories but I haven't started that yet. I have increased her Total amount of daily hay to 22 lbs (non soaked) and I have been seeing an kmptoved appetite for her supplements. Still leaves some in bucket but eating over half.  I am slowly weaning the Thyroxine, now st 3/4 scoop and she gets powdered Iodine(brand: The Source). I have been sneaking in the Mad Barn Visceral and Amino Trace Plus at low amounts and she is eating them better this week. I need to find a powdered source of Vit E but she gets a Tbsp salt and 1/2 flax. 

I took a rasp to her toes this week as she was holding up R front on occasion since vet visit and I felt confident in that I would not take off too much with my radiographic measurements. I really thought it was time to try get them back more as I have always been concerned about being too aggressive  It has been 3 days and she is moving around better landing heel first and no more standing with toes down.

She is looking comfortable but maybe I will cut her back to 20 lbs daily hay again as I am super worried about a relapse.  Any more thoughts? 

Delli and Julie
BC, Canada
3/2018

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Delli%20and%20Julie

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=88389

Hi Delli,

Good news that she seems more comfortable,and going in the right direction.
Good sneaking going on with her minerals!

Your comment on finding powdered Vitamin E caught my eye. A lot of us use vitamin E capsules,usually 400iu x whatever amount is needed, often 2000iu. They are easy to feed - most horses eat them- and the capsules contain oil,which is needed by the E to be more bioavailable. The powdered E should have oil added to it,when fed.
Costco has the best price I have found , in Ontario though. It goes on sale several times a year,which is even better.
Just a thought.

--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002

 

Lorna she has become very good at finding the vit E capsules and spits them out. My original post a few weeks ago was about her poor appetite for all her minerals and supplements. She gets them in 1/2 lb of soaked soy hulls and 1 lb of soaked alf x timothy cubes. I had tried to increase my carrier over July and August and that didnt help. She had routinely left the vit E capsules and her pergolide capsule.  I was able to syringe in her pergolide but the vit E went into the garbage. 

She also was leaving pellets and some soaked grain in bottom of feeder so I thought it was the Amino Trace pellets causing her to be off her food. I went back to my original copper and zinc powders but she didn't like that either. I tried removing salt, then top dressing with HiPro Profiber FX crunches but again really did not matter.
I was suspicious of ulcers so this is why I posted. Thankfully she ate hay throughout all of this time but it was odd how she preferred the soaked hay. All summer i was trying to transition her from 100% soaked low sugar hay to 50% sosked hay as shd kept having recurrent laminitis spells. Currently I am not soaking her confirmed low sugar hay and she is not being so fussy about her grain mix...maybe I will be able to sneak in a few vit E caps.   It has been a struggle so I am happy she is showing interest again.  
--
Delli and Julie
BC, Canada
3/2018

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Delli%20and%20Julie

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=88389

Hi Delli,

They make us tear our hair out,don't they ??!!

I don't see E in her CH but assume she is probably getting(wink,wink,nod,nod) 2000iu ,or 5x400iu caps?
I was going to suggest cutting the tops off each cap (nail scissors work well, or even poking a hole with a vet needle),and squirting the contents onto the top of her bucket.
Or,if you think it's worth a try,get 1000iu caps,and do the same to 2 of them,instead of 5.
It's just necessary for the oil and the E to go down together,is why I suggested this idea. You may be ahead of me.

--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002

 

The preference for soaked hay could mean she has oral irritation - mucosal ulcers, gingivitis, diastema.  Salt, concentrated minerals, hard capsules, coarse foods would be irritating.

You could soak the E capsules in a little hot water or hot water with vinegar to soften them, or replace with powdered E that you mix into a little oil before adding to the feed.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Julie, I ordered powdered E from mybesthorse.  Even in US$ and with S+H it was cheaper for a 6 month supply (1 horse) than the 4 x 400 IU capsules from the health store I was feeding before, plus Shaku was spitting out some of the capsules.  I mix the powdered E with 2.5 Tbsp of flaxseed oil (instead of feeding ground flax seed) in a small container and give it a good shake before pouring it on the beet pulp, amino trace+, and pro fibre crunch, but you could also mix the powdered E with a tablespoon or 2 of canola oil.

I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble feeding Amino Trace+.  I think one reason Shaku eats it is because he is always hungry.  As much as I try to make his 15 lbs of hay last 24hrs, I'm sure he finishes his overnight hay by midnight (have been meaning to set up a game camera so I know how long it's lasting!).  Even if he doesn't finish his supplements in front of me, his dish is always licked clean by morning!  It did take some time for him to get used to it though...and sounds like it's getting better for you! :)

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR)
Kitimat, BC, Canada
January 2019

Shaku's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kirsten%20and%20Shaku  
 
Shaku's Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82559&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0   

I also like to squirt the liquid E oil onto the feed - in absence of hand tools I usually just nip a gel cap end with my teeth and then squirt out the contents. I eat the empty gel caps myself, like no-sugar gummy bears.... hmmm, fingernails are improving :)
--
Kate and Bunny (Irish Draught broodmare "possibly" PPID) and Lacey (Irish Draught Sporthorse broodmare IR laminitis)
Homesick Angels Farm, WA USA
Joined August 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kate%20and%20Bunny
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kate%20and%20Lacey
Lacey feet image files  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95210
Bunny image files  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95239

Delli-  My boy sometimes would leave the E gelatin caps, so I would put the cap in a little water and heat in a microwave until the gelatin started to melt.  Then I'd stir, causing the E and oil to be released into the water.  This would be dumped into the mineral and carrier mix (including the gelatin cap).  The gelatin caps will also soften in cold water but it takes longer.   I'm thinking he got used to it because now he just eats it up.
--
Ronelle and Yoyo
2015 Bend, Or, US

Re vitamin E.  Jewel used to spit hers out too. Now i add them to her soaked hay cubes as a carrier...but mix them up early in the morning fiir evening feed or even the night before if its cool enough and fermentatioo is not an iseue. Bingo all is gone. Worth a try
--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063