IR Blood Test Results - Would you help me figure them out
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Hello, I just got Toons blood results and am confused. His case history has been updated. https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robyn%20and%20Toons My questions follow a brief summary/observations re: Toons, 15hh, 14 yo Arabian, limited distance trail horse Toons is currently a 5.5 to 6 on body condition scale per vet. He has incredible big feet/tight walls/toes back/good heels.The best feet during winter months that I have ever seen with him. We are 8 months in to recovery and rehab from annular ligament desmitis in RF and LH - exhausting, but I am talking to the choir :-) Winter rains have limited exercise. He is housed in a three sided barn with two 99% river sand and dirt paddocks. I have been feeding approximately 25 lbs of hay per 24 hours in portagrazers and hay nets, up to 15 minutes mature grass grazing and 2 cups of ODTC, handful of rinsed, soaked no-molasses Speedi-BP with supps. Blood Draw Toons Blood was drawn in 42 degree rainy weather at 10am. About 8 vials of blood were taken. They were not delivered to Cornell until three days later. I don’t know why there was a delay in delivery as Vet said would overnight the same day. I also had a CBC and mineral panel done for Selenium, Vitamin E, Fibrinogen and more. Please tell me if it would be helpful to look at these and should be uploaded to my folder? Toons Blood Test Results: Glucose 129 Range 71-113 Hemolysis 12 <20 = no homolysis (don’t know the importance of this) Icterus 1 ACTH 20.2 pg/mL Range 9-35 Insulin 115 ulU/mL Range 10-40 Leptin 15.24ng/mL Range 1-10 T4 0.946 ug/dL Range 1-3 1. Re: IR test results Since Glucose is so high, are the results suspect? Isn't Glucose normal or only slightly elevated in IR horses? Is uncompensated IR (Calculator comment) an improvement over Severe IR, laminitis risk high (his last blood test results)? If yes, how is that possible with higher glucose and insulin levels? 2. Glycocemic EQ I read EVERY message regarding this product. Some members report "good" results, but the results are not explained, e.g. Lower insulin. Would this product be worth a try to see if it might help glucose and insulin levels? If not this one, any other product suggestions along with balanced diet? Phosphorous content seems high in the product. Does it need to be balanced? 3. Feeding I realize I have been over feeding my horse through the winter, esp. given his limited exercise, IR; and I know that I should reduce his food intake to a 1.5 to 2% of ideal body weight? When he is in full work, his body score is usually 5. Thank you all. North Bay, CA April 2016 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robyn%20and%20Toons |
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On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:07 pm, Robyn Tucker wrote:
It's usually normal or slightly elevated but there is nothing that will cause it to be falsely high. His insulin is up too.
No, it's not an improvement.
You shouldn't add Glycocemic EQ to a diet that is already balanced. What is the iron:copper ratio in your diet? There is a very good chance you are dealing with iron overload.
You can also look at it from the angle of how much you feed him when in work to hold that BCS, assuming amount of hay is the only change. If that's the case, divide the amount of hay fed when fit by 1.3 to get an approximation of maintenance needs. EC Owner 2001 |
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On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:07 pm, Robyn Tucker wrote:
Hi Robyn, FYI: Hemolysis is the breakage of the red blood cell’s (RBC’s) membrane, causing the release of the hemoglobin and other internal components into the surrounding fluid. Hemolysis may compromise the laboratory test results. It may be due to improper specimen collection, specimen processing, or specimen transport. In other words, there was no indication of hemolysis in Toon's sample, which means there was no indication that the sample was mishandled. It is really easy to overfeed an IR horse who goes from working hard to hardly working. I doubt Toons would ask you to cut back on his hay! We tend to think of fat tissue as inert, but it actual produces its own biomolecules which are making things worse for an IR horse. With insulin numbers that high, I would cut out all grass and follow Dr. Kellon's feeding recommendations. It is very helpful to do the body score check on a regular basis and as soon as there is some fat packing on the ribs or anywhere else, get serious about getting rid of it. It is not his friend and increases his risk, which none of us want. If Toons is on a mineral balanced diet, you definitely don't want to mess that up with additional minerals in any supplement. ALCAR is one of the ingredients in the supplement you mentioned and it can be helpful with IR, but it's not a substitute for proper diet. You can buy ALCAR without the other ingredients at My Best Horse. You can read information on ALCAR here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Acetyl-L-Carnitine Hope that helps! -- Paula with Cory (IR) and Onyx (IR/PPID) Bucks County, PA, USA ECIR Primary Response NRCplus 2011 ECIR 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Cory https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1624 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Onyx |
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Dear Paula and Dr. Kellon, So sorry for the late reply. Thank you both for advice regarding feeding. It is so frustrating that research has not discovered better ways of managing IR horses and Type 2 diabetic people alike. I come from three generations of diabetes running in the family. However, it does help me to somewhat to understand my horse’s needs and challenges. I am wondering if I can replace the supplements I was feeding to balance Toons hay with the Glycocemic EQ product. I am sure someone would need to see the hay analysis to determine this. I will upload it to our folder. Is there someone in Northern CA that can help me with this? Thank you all so much. -- Robyn & Toons North Bay, CA April 2016 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robyn%20and%20Toons |
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P.S. I have heard different opinions about "ideal" body condition scores. Is it different for different breeds or is a BCS of 5 or 6 the ideal score for all horses? Thanks. North Bay, CA April 2016 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robyn%20and%20Toons |
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On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:43 am, Robyn Tucker wrote:
Is there someone in Northern CA that can help me with this? Hi Robyn, Check the getting help file: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing Best regards, Bucks County, PA, USA ECIR Primary Response NRCplus 2011 ECIR 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Cory https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1624 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Onyx |
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Hi Robyn, Check the getting help file: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing Best regards, Cool - I forgot about this help file. Thank you. Robyn & Toons North Bay, CA April 2016 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robyn%20and%20Toons |
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