Can I stop soaking hay?


k frog
 

Hi all,

 This question probably isn't as simple as I think, but maybe.

 I have purchased two tons of hay that is from the same field as my current hay, only it is the second cutting. I am hoping I can stop soaking hay.

1st cutting ESC-9.8%, Starch-.5% for a combined 10.3%

2nd cutting ESC-6.9%, Starch-.6% for a combined 7.5%

Splash is doing great, lots of energy, moving well, and has even lost a little weight (she was probably a BS 6, and now I'd say she is a 5.5).

The only other notable difference in the hays is the CP. 1st cutting 11.7%. 2nd cutting is 14.6%.

Thanks for your input. Frozen fingers crossed.
--
Karen F

October 2013

Molalla, Oregon

Case History for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Splash

Photo Album for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1994











Maggie
 

Hi Karen,


Yes, never as simple as one might think.


I see the analysis for the 1st cutting in your CH folder, but not the 2nd cutting.  Can you put that in there too?  


With a CP of 14.7%, I would check the nitrates on the 2nd cutting.  You can ask EA to add it for $9.  http://equi-analytical.com/standard-analytical-services/ 


And yes, the second cutting (ESC of 6.9 and starch of .6 = 7.5%) would not need to be soaked to remove sugar.  If the nitrates come back high, then soaking may be necessary to remove some of the nitrates.  Or you can cut the total hay amount fed with another lower nitrate hay.  Here's a list of posts I found using "nitrates" in the search box:  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/search?q=%22nitrates%22 


All that said, a CP of 14.6% is getting up on the high side for an IR horse.  We like to see it more in the 8-10% area.  We can help you better once you put both analyses in your CH.


Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


k frog
 

Hi Maggie,

 I have sent the Hay Analysis of the 2nd cutting to LeeAnn so she can upload it to my Case History at her convenience. 

 I will send a sample to Equi-Analytical for a Nitrate test. I don't expect it to be high, but without testing it's an unknown.

 Finding the perfect hay is an unending quest. It seems that there is always a trade-off, or should I say, there are always multiple factors to take into consideration, prioritize, balance, and lose sleep over:).

 Thank you for your input.
--
Karen F

October 2013

Molalla, Oregon

Case History for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Splash

Photo Album for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1994











Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Karen,

Give EA a call and see if they still have the original sample that you sent in - they save them for awhile. If so, just ask them to do the nitrate test on that - saves having to take/send another sample.
--
Lavinia, Dante and George Too

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


k frog
 

Hi Maggie,

 EA doesn't have that original sample any longer. The hay was originally tested in August of last year, shortly after it was purchased by my supplier.

 He tests most of the hay he sells, which is why I buy from him. I have noticed he tests some of his hay for nitrates and not others. I guess I should ask him why.

 He had another hay there for me to choose from that tested lower in protein, but slightly higher in ESC/Starch. That field he had tested for nitrates. 11.2% CP, 0.05% Nitrates. The fields are next to each other, but I'm not sure if they are managed the same. It was tempting, but at this point in my game I am pretty focused on low ESC/S.
--
Karen F

October 2013

Molalla, Oregon

Case History for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Splash

Photo Album for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1994











k frog
 

Lavinia,

 Sorry, I meant to address my last post to you. 

 Thanks for suggesting to contact EA. Could have saved me time and money, always a good thing.
--
Karen F

October 2013

Molalla, Oregon

Case History for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Splash

Photo Album for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1994











Maggie
 

Hi Karen,


Yes, stay focused on ESC and starch.  As you know , you want that to be under 10%.  Some horses need it even lower, but most do well as long as it's under 10%.  And remember, starch converts 100% to glucose, sugar (ESC) only 50%, so causes a higher insulin response.  I like to think of the starch as "times 2" when I am adding the ESC and starch together.


Not all grass hay with a higher protein is high in nitrates, but worth checking when you get up to 13-14%.  Here's a recent thread about nitrates:  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/4429822#205783 


At 0.05% nitrates that alternate hay falls below the guideline of keeping it under 0.5%.  Here's a link to the nitrate guidelines:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/1.%20Hay%20Information/Nitrate%20Guidelines%202012.pdf 


Too bad EA doesn't still have your sample.  I know they keep them for some period of time, but do not know how long that is.  Good question for Chris at EA, so you will know in future if you need to add anything.


Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response