Please comment on new hoof x-rays


Karin & Inky <ksherbin@...>
 

Hoof gurus,

 

I have uploaded the x-rays taken of Inky’s front feet on 2017 3 8: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky/hoof%20x-rays%202017%203%208

 

 

I am looking for comments on what they mean, and what to do with the next trim. Also, if you can see arthritis or any other problem from these images, please let me know that too. With the proper trim, will Inky be ride-able?

 

The photo album shows some hoof pics from 2016 10 29 when he had been seen by a farrier in a timely manner, if that helps at all (he is way off schedule now due to scheduling issues with current farrier. Am trying to secure a new farrier).

 

 I took photos after the vet left from the X-rays, but poor Inky was fed up with the whole thing after the vet visit so I put him back in his paddock. Will try again on the photos.

 

Thank you so much!

 

 

Karin & Inky

Forest, VA

IR/Cushing's

July 27, 2015

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1979

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky/hoof%20x-rays%202017%203%208

 

 

 

 

 


LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 
Edited

Hi Karen,

PLEASE, photos do not belong in your case history folder.  They use up MASSIVE amounts of data.  You need to put them in your photo album which is located here (taken from your signature)

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1979

and name the photos correctly so Lavinia doesn't have to puzzle out which foot is which.  Which she might not be able to do especially as properly taken photos make it almost impossible to tell which foot is which.  

Directions on what goes where are in the wiki.  

Please take a few minutes and read all the wiki pages that are marked with a red asterisk.  You will save yourself and the support team a lot of time by putting things in the correct place the first time.  


LeeAnne,
Newmarket, Ontario. 

ECIR Archivist March, 2004
​ 


Karin & Inky <ksherbin@...>
 

LeeAnne,

 

I have deleted the pictures of the hooves. I thought they were in a separate photo album.

 

I believe the x-rays are separate from the Case History. Again, if that is wrong please let me know. The images are labeled per directions.

 

 

From: main@ECIR.groups.io [mailto:main@ECIR.groups.io] On Behalf Of LeeAnne Bloye
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 3:44 PM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ECIR] Please comment on new hoof x-rays

 

Hi Karen,

PLEASE, photos do not belong in your case history folder.  They use up MASSIVE amounts of data.  You need to put them in your photo album which is located here (taken from your signature)

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1979

and name the photos correctly so Lavinia doesn't have to puzzle out which foot is which.  Which she might not be able to do especially as properly taken photos make it almost impossible to tell which foot is which.  

Directions on what goes where are in the wiki.  

Please take a few minutes and read all the wiki pages that are marked with a red asterisk.  You will save yourself a lot of time by putting things in the correct place the first time.  

 

LeeAnne,
Newmarket, Ontario. 

ECIR Archivist March, 2004

​ 


Karin & Inky <ksherbin@...>
 
Edited

Lee Anne,

 

I deleted the x-rays too.  Thank you for your instructions.

 

 

Karin & Inky

Forest, VA

IR/Cushing's

July 27, 2015

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1979

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky/hoof%20x-rays%202017%203%208


 

 

 

 

 

 


LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Hi Karen,

Thanks for this.  I see you mostly use email to post your messages.  I think you might understand how the group is set up and works if you read the files in the Wiki.  Also take a little boo at the group on line, it really helps understand the difference between the files and the photo albums when you look at them online.

If there is anything you (or anyone) finds confusing in the instructions PLEASE let me know.  If they are not working they need to be fixed.  They were written to save members frustration and time as well as to prevent our Support Team from getting burned out addressing the same issues over and over.   

--


LeeAnne,
Newmarket, Ontario. 

ECIR Archivist March, 2004
​ 


Lorna Cane
 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1979

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky/hoof%20x-rays%202017%203%208


Hi Karin,


I went to these links but they don't go directly to your photos.

Can you copy link to your photos?


--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002




Lorna Cane
 

Hi Karin,


I've gone searching and have found your x-rays.

Here are the links for your signature:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=834


--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002




Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Karin,

I've added the xray mark-ups to Inky's album here:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=834

I couldn't find any of the hoof photos?

In general, the feet have gotten flattened, with the heel bulbs and digital cushion being squished backward. The toes are extremely long, heels likely under run, soles thin. The coffin bones are ground parallel (zero palmer angle), which is causing the bony hoof-pastern (HPA) axis to be broken back. There is evidence of arthritis along the pastern joints (aka ringbone).

LF lateral xray: Green line is where the dorsal wall should be, parallel to the pink line along the dorsal surface of the coffin bone when it is correctly aligned with the rest of the bony column. Purple line is the current bony column alignment, pink is where it should be - note how it dips back/down, causing the broken-back HPA. This causes compression of the pastern joints and is a factor in the formation of the ringbone.

Brown line follows the bony column alignment to the ground - there should be no hoof capsule at ground level beyond this point as that is where the bony column wants to break over. Orange is the sole thickness under the leading edge of the coffin bone - should be at least equal to the thickness of the correct dorsal wall. Inky's is thinner than it should be.

Blue line is where to back the toe to and bevel under to ease the break over.

Red line is where the bottom of the foot should be but isn't. Because the heels are likely under run, they are crushing under and not providing the necessary vertical height to keep the bony column aligned correctly. Red arrow indicates the need to add more height to the back of the foot in relation to the front half so as to reorient the coffin bone and bony column correctly. Yellow is an idea of where the heel bulbs should be - note how much flatter and further out behind the foot they are.

The cloudy/fuzzy areas in the lime circles on the dorsal aspects of the pastern joints are the areas of inflammation = arthritis = ringbone.

RF lateral xray: Same as LF although the HPA seems to be less broken back.

Need to back the toes really well to re-establish the correct break over point for the bony column. Heels likely need to be brought back but there is NO available height to do this right now. Boots and pads that are wedged may be helpful temporarily to assist in getting the palmer angle closer to the 3*-5* that is correct until Inky's heels can do the work themselves. It is likely that the same issues are present in his hind feet.

--
Lavinia, Dante and George Too

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Karin & Inky <ksherbin@...>
 

Lavinia,

 

First, thank you in general for your comments. Second, thank you for staying up to such an incredibly late hour to do them!

 

I have forwarded the comments and mark-ups to my vet, who is attending the conference in October, and to my new farrier. I had told him that he would be working as part of a team and that I seek comments elsewhere. He seemed okay with the concept. We’ll see! Hopefully he will agree with you and there won’t be any debates.

 

Besides the toes, do you think some of the issues you highlighted are because he went without trimming from mid-December to now? Or were these longstanding issues derived from the way he has been trimmed, or from his confirmation? He is pigeon-toed.

 

I took the old hoof photos down because they weren’t labeled.  I didn’t post new ones because I couldn’t get all the play-doh from the x-ray session off the soles due to rushing around cleaning up before the owner of the carport where we did the x-rays came home. It was a poor location choice! Will see if I can get decent photos after the trim.

 

 

Karin & Inky

Forest, VA

IR/Cushing's

July 27, 2015

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=834

 


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Karin,

You're welcome.

All of the issues are long-standing ones. The extra-long time since the last trim has only exacerbated the previous problems. Visible arthritic changes, displaced heel bulbs, the entire foot being flattened and under slung take time to develop but once established, these pathologies accelerate every time they are given a chance.  6 weeks (or more) between trims is too long for most horses unless they are moving barefoot over abrasive footing - if the horse "looks like he needs to be trimmed" then it should have been trimmed 1-2 weeks before that time.

Conformation plays a part but you also need to make sure that you are actually dealing with conformation issues rather than acquired pathologies. Being pigeon-toed may or may not be conformational - jammed up/frozen sesamoids can be the underlying cause, as can muscle issues further up the leg and/or in the shoulder. Free them up (knowledgeable chiropractor or rehab pro) and/or correct the trim and the pigeon-toed stance is gone. This doesn't mean that you make a foot face forward regardless of where the leg it's attached to faces. It means that you keep the hoof capsule trimmed so that it tightly conforms to, and supports, the internal structures at all times. That way, you minimize the impact of any true conformational deficiencies that may exist and don't create any secondary pathologies.

--
Lavinia, Dante and George Too

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team