Help with weight loss, and analysing adequacy of current hay


JGS
 

Sonny looks like he has lost a lot of weight since February, and I would appreciate help/insight as to what to do. I just updated his Case History, and included the hay analysis I just got back from Equi-analytical. Vet called and left a message to tell me bloodwork (ACTH now 358 down from 1250, and insulin "normal"). I will get actuals on Monday and update Case History then.

1. In the meantime, because of apparent weight loss, I searched group files and am I correct that I can feed him up to 4 lbs (dry) of beet pulp per day (?)  I have started increasing his beet pulp quite a bit over the last week. I have worked up to about 2 lbs dry/day... I was thinking I shouldn't do it all at once, or does it matter? (There was about a week where he was only eating about 15 lbs of hay, but he is eating all 20 lbs now again.)

2. According to the hay analysis of Sonny's current hay, ESC + starch is 7.8. and WSC is 19.3. Question: Do I need to soak hay still? Does the WSC matter?

3. Is this hay adequate in nutrients to feed, or should I keep searching for other hay? I don't really have a reference point, so would appreciate it if someone would comment on this. I compared it to the analysis of the hay I bought that he couldn't eat, and what I'm feeding has about half or less of protein and nutrients...

4. Sonny is having some difficulty eating his hay, leaving some wadded hay chews on the floor of his stall.(Had his teeth done Dec. of 2015 and all was good.)  I am wondering if you think I might include feeding him some Standlee timothy pellets? I found an analysis in the group files that looked like it should be okay sugar-wise. . . ESC 5.9  + Starch .6, https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9c%20Analyses%20of%20Various%20Feeds/Standlee%20Products/Timothy%20Pellets%202016-11-22.pdf.

5. Other suggestions?

Thanks so much...appreciate the info and help!





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Joan

Feb 2017, Sherwood, OR

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joan%20and%20Sonny  .



Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

First, the easy stuff. No, WSC does not matter. You don't have to soak this hay. Also can't rely on those pellets to always be safe.  You are better off with more rinsed-soaked-rinsed beet pulp.

If not soaked, your current hay has adequate calories in 20 lbs but does need mineral balancing (badly!) and supplementation. About 1 and 3/4 scoop of Uckele U Balance Foundation is a good fit until you can get a custom or add individual minerals. Stop everything else except plain white salt. Give vitamin E.  The protein is just adequate in total amount but lysine deficient.  The U Balance will help with that but would also add a dose of their Tri-Amino (inexpensive).

Poor chewing though will reduce what he can extract from the hay. It could be loose teeth, gum disease, poor chewing from age related changes in jaw angle or any combination of those.  Contact both Ontario Dehy and Triple Crown about availability of the timothy balance cubes.  If you have some large, heavy shears can also try  chopping up his hay for him.

ACTH is still way too high and will also lead to weight/muscle loss. Talk to your vet about increasing this.  Also consider putting him on Jiaogulan both for feet and to protect against pergolide veil. Some horses need APF for the veil but others do well with just Jiaogulan which is much less expensive.  If you order the Uckele products, can get your Jiaogulan there too.


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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 09:27 am, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
Talk to your vet about increasing this.

 Should be increasing pergolide!
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


JGS
 

Thanks so much for the info.  I will talk to him tomorrow.  Do you have any kind of guesstimate as to how much more pergolide might control his ACTH, considering his initial level and response? (1250 down to 358 on 1 mg Prasend over 67 days and 21,000 grams Metformin/day.)

I was hoping to get compounded pergolide to be able to afford any increase... I called a couple compounding pharmacies in our area.  They provide it, but it's more expensive. I can get 30 tabs 1 mg Prasend online through my vet's office for $59, and the compounding pharmacies charge $80 - $89 for the same. They can, however, formulate it into .25 tabs so that increases can be made without cutting tabs.

Thanks so much.
--
Joan

Feb 2017, Sherwood, OR

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joan%20and%20Sonny  .



Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There's really no way to predict how much more pergolide you will need but can count on at least 1 mg.

The higher price at your local pharmacies is because they don't have other prescriptions to fill and must buy a certain minimum amount of bulk drug that they will have to dispose of after 3 months. Check with a larger veterinary compounder that fills a lot of these prescriptions.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001