Testing horse for IR


hdavis
 

Hello,

I have been following the emergency diet with my horse since August 5, 2017 when she was diagnosed with founder with slight rotation in both front feet.  She has been doing well and I am in the process of trying to get her feet realigned as well as getting a ration balanced.  Now that things seemed to have cooled down with her and she isn't shown any lameness or discomfort I want to look at getting her tested for IR and a confirmed diagnosis.

I have had discussions with my local vet (was not the one who diagnosed her founder as travelled to an equine vet for that) on testing her for IR but he wants to do the sugar test.  During the last discussion I flat out told him I will not do this test and explained it could be dangerous for an IR horse.  I have already most likely pushed my horse over the edge in July when this same vet scribed a high dose of Dex for what was thought to be a bug allergy.  Needless to say I am not putting my horse at risk again for more injury.  So what I want to be sure of is getting the right test which will get me the best info and not put my horse at risk.

I have searched the messages and the files and think this is what I ask my vet to do for the IR diagnosis:

- a simple blood draw for serum insulin, glucose and leptin and the horse should have hay the night before and the day of testing.  No exercise as well as limit her stress.  

Is this correct and by requesting this simple blood draw they will realize no sugar test right?

In addition my vet is 30 minutes away so has anyone trailered their horses that long to do the test or will this greatly impact my test results?

I live in Canada so do I have to get the Leptin test or can I just test for insulin and glucose for now?  

Is there any value of checking for ACTH for a horse who is 6 in April of next year or would my money be better spent elsewhere?

Your  comments and suggestions are much appreciated as I want to be sure to do this right.  Thanks so much!!


 
--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

 Photos
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0  .





 

Hi, Heather!  You are so right in not wanting your horse to be subjected to the oral glucose/karo syrup test. It is risky, and totally not necessary.

Your vet can use the Idexx (which is what most vets use); no real need for ACTH at this early age (just going by the odds, here). The reason for getting leptin (which can only be done at Cornell, so the blood has to be sent on) is to help determine if a high insulin is due to Cushing's (PPID) or due to baseline IR. You can do just the insulin and glucose at this stage, as sending to Cornell for leptin will add buckets of money. If I were concerned about PPID, and we were sending to Guelph or Cornell anyway, that would be a different story.  We all have to protect our financial resources, getting the best for our horses but not getting tests which might not be totally necessary at this time.

It is best not to trailer your horse, as that can really skew results - more so for ACTH (not your concern); but insulin and glucose may be affected as well. The best bang for your buck is to actually pay the extra to get your vet out to your property.

Do the single blood pull. Have hay in front of Rio until the vet gets there. If Rio has a bit of a fast overnight (not all of us can guarantee that the horse doesn't inhale the hay net contents before midnight), then book the vet for 4 hours or more after the first hay of the day, and keep hay in front of her til the vet gets there.  If the vet has a whole day of calls after you, ask if you can run the blood back to the clinic yourself to be spun and put in the clinic fridge. 

It is interesting that she has been spooky and sometimes explosive - we have at least one member who can judge her mare's insulin levels by her nuttiness; when diet is super tight and insulin is down, the mare is fine. When her insulin levels are up, the mare is ..... difficult.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


hdavis
 

Hi Jaini.

I hope you are doing well.

I pulled up this email from before and wanted to double check something as having my blood pulled next week hopefully.

Can I just give Rio free choice hay the night before and then right up to when the blood is pulled?  Is that correct?

Can I still give her her mineral and beet pulp the day/evening before?

Thanks!!!

Heather Davis

On Oct 11, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Jaini Clougher <merlin5clougher@...> wrote:

Hi, Heather!  You are so right in not wanting your horse to be subjected to the oral glucose/karo syrup test. It is risky, and totally not necessary.

Your vet can use the Idexx (which is what most vets use); no real need for ACTH at this early age (just going by the odds, here). The reason for getting leptin (which can only be done at Cornell, so the blood has to be sent on) is to help determine if a high insulin is due to Cushing's (PPID) or due to baseline IR. You can do just the insulin and glucose at this stage, as sending to Cornell for leptin will add buckets of money. If I were concerned about PPID, and we were sending to Guelph or Cornell anyway, that would be a different story.  We all have to protect our financial resources, getting the best for our horses but not getting tests which might not be totally necessary at this time.

It is best not to trailer your horse, as that can really skew results - more so for ACTH (not your concern); but insulin and glucose may be affected as well. The best bang for your buck is to actually pay the extra to get your vet out to your property.

Do the single blood pull. Have hay in front of Rio until the vet gets there. If Rio has a bit of a fast overnight (not all of us can guarantee that the horse doesn't inhale the hay net contents before midnight), then book the vet for 4 hours or more after the first hay of the day, and keep hay in front of her til the vet gets there.  If the vet has a whole day of calls after you, ask if you can run the blood back to the clinic yourself to be spun and put in the clinic fridge. 

It is interesting that she has been spooky and sometimes explosive - we have at least one member who can judge her mare's insulin levels by her nuttiness; when diet is super tight and insulin is down, the mare is fine. When her insulin levels are up, the mare is ..... difficult.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 



Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes to both questions.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
2 for 1 course sale 2018 is on
EC Owner 2001


hdavis