Cluster of Severe EMS Cases - long shot Johnson Grass


Cass Bernstein
 

Dr Kellon, at least two grasses being sold a orchard grass in northern California are NOT orchard grass. One in particular looks very attractive because it’s very leafy and persistently green hay. I received several bale in the past few years, and the nitrate levels were off the charts, 7700 ppm nitrate ion, 5100 ppm nitrate ion.  I haven't tested for cyanide but would be willing to if I can find a lab to do it.

I suspect some kind of Johnson Grass (an invasive plant in California). The hay I received with off the charts nitrates levels had these seed heads, remains very green even though 2 years old. I’m attaching a photo.



Cass

On Dec 18, 2019, at 11:06 AM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...> wrote:

I'm trying to collect information on all the cases of severely elevated insulin  (200 uIU/1200 pmol  or higher), usually also with elevated glucose, in horses or ponies/minis located in western Canada and along the west coast of the US. If you have one of these, please send the following information to drkellon "at" gmail.com.

1.  The animal's location, including nearest city or town, and how long you have been there
2.  Animal's age, breed and sex
3.  Insulin and glucose at diagnosis or time of severe worsening
4.  Where your hay is grown
5.  Other items in the diet
6.  Treatments tried and response to them
7.  Link to your case history on ECIR if you have one

Any other comments are welcome.

Thank you.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001



--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (not)
Sonoma County, Calif 
Diamond Case History


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Photos can't come through on messages. Could you please put it in the Photos section?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


 

Oops. Not paying attention that the reply posted on groups.io. 

Here's one:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/7296/0?p=Created,,,50,2,0,0 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Johnson grass seed heads are shaped like Christmas trees but drying, etc. can change characteristics considerably. Have you tried taking it to your local state Ag extension agent's office?  If they can't ID it, they can send it to someone who can!
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


 

I'm not sure I can find the seed heads any more, but there may be more in the last bale. If I find them, I'll do it. This hay comes from near Ft Jones, California, Siskiyou County, California.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


 

I am curious. I have been doing the Equi Tech 601 test for my hay analysis. It does not measure nitrates. I live in South Central Ky and we too have Johnson Grass in every hay field. We try and bale 1st cutting before it really starts growing but it's impossible to guarantee. We lost half our 1st cutting this past season and had to bale 2nd cutting which had a lot of Johnson Grass in it since it thrives in the warmer months. 

I have NOT had issues with my IR mare since tightening up her diet  (knock on wood)  but now I am wondering if in 2020 should I begin to add a nitrate test for that? I was initially concerned of being higher in sugar and starch because it is in the sorghum family.

--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


 

Hi, Nancy. The hay analyses in your CH folder don't show high Crude Protein. High nitrates are unlikely when Crude Protein is in the 8%-10% range. I learned to test for nitrates when CP is 11% or greater. You can wait for your analysis results and then request the addition of nitrates if the CP is high. One exception is that in certain parts of the country, for example, in the central and southern parts of California, grass hay often contains a percentage of alfalfa or other legume that increases CP well above 11% into the 15% range and still not contain high nitrates.  

I want to alert you to possible inaccuracies of the 601 analysis when ESC reaches the level in one of your hays, 7.9%.  I had the bad experience of screening one hay using the 601, showing ESC at 7.3%. The 603 analysis found ESC was actually in the range of 11.2%. That was an extreme example IME but obviously still a possibility.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


Barbara Rosensteel
 

An agronomist or botanist would not need an entire intact seed head to identify the plant to the species level.   A few intact inflorescenses (the tiny individual flower parts and seeds) should be enough for an experienced agronomist or botanist with a hand lens to identify it.
--
Barbara Rosensteel

Sept 2007, Cookeville TN



 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Wow...thank you. I guess I will be rethinking and maybe switching to the 603. I wonder why the discrepancy. 

--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


Amy Veatch
 

Hi Cass, we have tons of Johnsongrass here and the seed pods are much more branched than your photo. Also, Johnsongrass looses it's green color very fast once it's cut in hay, so it'll look more like straw.  If it's been gotten by frost, you'll see lots of burgundy streaking in the stem and leaves, which I've been told indicates the plant is now dangerous with cyanide in it. The greenest weed type grass I've found in hay is crabgrass. There's a tall kind. It's very leafy and stays green. The Johnsongrass is big, wide leaves, and very stemmy.
--
Amy & Princess (12 year old KY Mtn Saddle mare) & Max (6 year old mini gelding) - both PPID/IR
Southeast TN, Joined 2019

Max:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Max
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=134444&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0

Princess:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Pincess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=96097

 



Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

The Equi TEch 601 test uses NIR technology (near infrared spectroscopy) for the ECS, WSC, Starch numbers (minerals a re done using wet chem technique). This is a comparative test rather than a wet chem analysis of the sample so you can get significantly different results.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


 

Thanks, Amy. I never felt my ID was quite right, although it's my top guess based on many searches and reviews of invasive grasses in northern California.  I'll try agricultural extension in the new decade. Whatever it is, it is NOT orchard grass or timothy or rye or canary grass or Yorkshire Fog/velvet grass or anything native. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


Amy Veatch
 

Cass, I can feel your pain, figuring out the array of invasive plants is a full-time job around here. I've been battling Johnsongrass at my farm for nearly 20 years now--this stuff haunts my nightmares!  The stems are different from regular grass too, so that Might help in your determination. In Johnsongrass  (and sorghum, which is grown down the street from me) the stems are segmented with bulbous nodes every so often up the stem. Hope this helps and good luck with your search.
--
Amy & Princess (12 year old KY Mtn Saddle mare) & Max (6 year old mini gelding) - both PPID/IR
Southeast TN, Joined 2019

Max:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Max
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=134444&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0

Princess:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Pincess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=96097