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jesse mouth issues

LJ Friedman
 

Jesse had a dental recheck exam today. The tooth that showed infection on x-ray is still quite tight. My vet wants me to go back on the uniprim and reevaluate in two months. His concern is that the infection can spread to other teeth. Thoughts on restarting uniprim  for two months provided things stay quiet?
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

He doesn't have to be on antibiotics just because he has a loose tooth. Dentists often recommend them for a few days before an extraction in case there is an abscess and they shake things up with the tooth removal but just having a loose tooth does not automatically mean infection. Long term antibiotics is not a good idea and long term half dose is even worse. You are inviting the development of resistant strains.

I don't see a problem with stopping the antibiotic at 2 weeks and just following him. If the tooth isn't loose enough to easily remove and the diagnosis of infection is not certain - which seems like your situation - no harm in just watching him.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

 

LJ, my almost 40 year old Cushings horse, frequently had loose teeth.  His dentist would work with the planes until the tooth was almost horizontal, and had calcified at the bottoms as they tipped a bit, and until they were loose enough to remove in a dental exam, he left them.   (Sure there might have been instances where surgery would have been the answer, but not just 'a loose tooth')

Removing molars surgically would have left gaps, and the teeth to either side would loose their 'support'. 

Months before 40, he still had at least half of his teeth. 

BUT, his diet at that point was 100% ODTBCubes, hydrated.  And as a pasture pet, and 1000#, he got more than your feeding Jesse. 
--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History

LJ Friedman
 

Hoping Dr. kellon can offer me advice on this, knowing jesses issues, etc. I am using my regular vet  on this and do not have a dental specialist on board and I’m looking for your opinion.
With my goal of not having to trailer Jesse for a loose tooth, is it possible to keep him on antibiotics until that tooth is loose enough to extract , where he lives,  instead of trailering to the surgery center? currently using 2 scoops of uniprim once a day? Do you see a maximum amount of days or months that I could continue with this  antibiotic? any dose change? The two scoop dose was given as this dental vet  was getting Jesse ready for an extraction in three days at the surgery center.  . Can I use one scoop for a much longer time?  other change?    Currently the plan is continue current uniprim dosec for two weeks and reevaluate. But I’m not sure what the reevaluation will ?  tooth 208 was mentioned to be difficult to extract in the field thank  you




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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

LJ Friedman
 


-- 6 ozs golden flax.  Turns out the barn owner might be exaggerating on how much Jesse canters. I don’t think it’s as much as she mentioned. Says the barn manager. no other feed  . just a tiny few tbs of hygain zero with the invokana 
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I agree it doesn't sound like surgery is necessary at this point.

The 22 lbs may not be enough yet. It sounds like he's a lot more active, including on turnout. The calorie level in the pellets is going to vary too. Try him on 25 pounds with 6 to 8 oz/ day of flax. Weren't you also giving him some type of feed?
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

LJ Friedman
 

Jesse had a dental exam on Tuesday. One tooth is  maybe infected number 208?   x-rays posted to images ( thank you Nancy for your help with CH) 
.
vet report from Tuesday : 
 Horse is thin BCS: 4 Owner feeds 22lbs of hay pellets daily.with other supplements. He is Cushingnoid and gets and injectable pergolide every 2 weeks.
Oral: No incisors or canines. The 306 and 406 are also absent. Most edges are smooth except for the caudal buccal edges fo 111 and 211 which were smoothed. The 208 and possible the 209 is loose. Horse is challenging to examine as he moves his head a lot even after 2nd dose of tranqulizer. There is a large amount of tartar on the buccal sides of 106-7 , 206-7 and possible further. After partial removal of tartar the furcation was exposed. the 408 has a lingua fragment at the gingiva.
REC: dental rads of all cheek teeth, most concern with the 2 and 4 arcade. Put on Uniprim at least 3 days 

I had x-rays done the following day from a different vet. The first  vet was a disaster   The second Vet. located the tooth and it was only slightly   loose but not causing any problems and no clear evidence of infection via smell etc. etc.   We will treat with uniprim for two weeks and reevaluate.  at Jesse’s age, I do not want to  trailer him to a surgeon and extract unless it’s absolutely necessary. Second vet said tooth 208 is not that easy to extract in the field.

A  vet friend of mine with a similar older  Cushing’s horse  with a  similar tooth situation is on uniprim  and cleaning and rinsing   and waiting for the tooth to get loose where it can be easily taken out. I’m not  sure if that’s my route, but I do not want to trailer him to a surgeon.



.  During the  follow up xray exam, Jesse put up quite a fight as he doesn’t like things going over his head. The vet was sort of proud that his age he was so tough etc. He had to increase the tranq  a bit.. I usually prefer a natural dentists etc. But at jesse’s age, I’m going to use a vet that will always take a  look inside do an x-ray etc  .  the first vet mentioned no diastema, when i asked her.,    There was a discussion from the second vet,  that perhaps if the tooth was painful and the heart rate went up a bit ,,that perhaps that caused  increase calorie use?
Jesse still he looks good enough . very happy cantering in his private turnout 
 
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Eva Stettner
 

I don't know if this helps much because it's more when he eats hay than pellets, but my horse looks sort of like your video of Jesse when he chews. Then a quid drops out of his mouth. At his last dental float, the vet tried to find a cause of this and identified one molar that had a cup in it and he said it's possible that's where the quids form. When he chews the top and bottom teeth don't grind flat against each other. He said he could grind the top of the tooth down to be flatter but that could cause other problems. So we just left it.

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Eva and Apollo (PPID, IR)
San Diego, CA
Joined 01/24/2018

Apollo's Case History

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

I had the same thought (your regular vet) although the dentist may be better equipped to do a full exam.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

LJ Friedman
 

thanks for the reply about the pockets. I will have an exam for with.  Do you agree that a dental vet( The one that did his big surgery) should have eyes on him? Or would  a general vet also be OK
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

Those extraction pockets are filled in by now. Older horses do have spaces called diastema develop between their teeth at the gumline and these can become impacted with food and inflamed. Could be something unrelated too. Your exam will tell.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Deb Walker
 

First of all LJ...what an AWESOME barn owner you have. Not many boarding facilities will accommodate multiple feed schedules, etc.

Scotty pretty much eats like that all the time...and he has only had one tooth extracted. But all of his back teeth are worn completely smooth, and even eating his hay mush becomes a challenge. One thing that I noticed with Jesse is that he is eating out of a bucket hung on stall. You might want to try a larger trough on the ground. Scotty seems to do better when he is eating with his head down...I think it's the rule of gravity that helps.
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Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619

Sherry Morse
 

Hi LJ,

If it's possible to do more feedings with less food that might be helpful, but the biggest thing is probably just be going to keep an eye on him and if he's doing that odd chewing behavior checking to see if anything is stuck.

One of my friends has a mini who has issues with food accumulating in pockets in his cheeks - when I watch him I usually have to swipe each side clean ever day or two.  With him it doesn't cause him to stop eating or drinking, but he starts to look like he has chipmunk cheeks and that's when I know I need to clean him out.



 

Hi LJ,

I've noticed the same thing in other horses with missing teeth.  Washing the mouth frequently isn't a bad idea.
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Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

LJ Friedman
 

i sent an email to dental vet that did jesse’s surgeries. The Barn manager is going to change his feeding schedule to five times a day instead of four, thinking that less food at one time might be beneficial?
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

LJ Friedman
 

Sunday 6/28/20 , I Jesse went off of his food and water very significantly. For him not to eat is always a cause of concern because of his leptin and he never gets the hungry signal. Here’s a video of what’s going on. Barn manager seems to think a pocket filled up with pellets, causing discomfort. He syringed the mouth with water  and he seems to improved eating and drinking well. The plan is to rinse his mouth a few times a week. I have a dentist scheduled to come out in july. So I will get that confirmed as well. Any thoughts on this? There is another horse in the barn that has the same issue I’m told. And remember jesse had significant teeth removed because of the EOTRH, so certainly he does have plenty of pockets from all these extractions

https://youtu.be/LnHhmwubY1E


?



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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos