Mark ups on hoof radiographs request (Lavinia?) - hoof images added


Jenny Heishman
 

Hello again,

I have added hoof images to accompany the radiographs.....hooves have not been trimmed - same as those in radiographs, just two days apart.

Please let me know if there is a better way to organize all of the hoof images.
They are here in our album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60437
There is a body image first, then all the hoof images, followed by the lateral view radiographs.

Thanks so much for your help with this!

Best,
Jenny


--
Jenny Heishman and Rico  
Bainbridge Island, WA   June 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenny%20and%20Rico
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60437


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jenny,

Rico is quite the handsome boy.

Thanks for putting up the pix and rads. Nice job on getting the markers on the hooves for the rads too. The photo organization is fine so no worries there.

Your eye is good: toes need to come back on all four feet. Also going to need to work on getting his heels back under him as they've squished forward. Soles are thinner than optimum, so using padded boots when he's ridden is a good idea. Frogs on the hinds are looking fairly robust, fronts are definitely less developed. Nice work on getting the heel flaring under control.

I'll get mark-ups for you but it won't be until the weekend.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Jenny Heishman
 

Thank-you, Lavinia.
I'm so grateful to have your eye and expertise on this!
I will wait for your mark-ups before trimming.

Hoping for tips on how to bring back the toes when his hoof walls are pretty much the same width all around the sole....do I remove the entire hoof wall on the toe area?

On sole depth...this one really gets me....and totally explains his searching for softer footing whenever we are out, but how can I help him increase it?!  I have had him in front boots every time we head off the farm for a year and a half and his soles are still thin.  I'm thinking of buying the Flex Hoof Boots (out of Finland) with the pads - they sell EVA pads (firm) and Kevlar pads for all four hooves.  Will measure his hooves after I get the trim done based on your mark ups.

On heel height....same question as sole depth - any suggestions on tweaks I can make to support the heels to grow out straight underneath him?  I've read Pete Ramey's articles and I'm a little lost on the "rocker" added to the heel....if that's advised, any additional description on how to achieve it would be super helpful.

On back hooves, medio-lateral balance - did you notice in the sole plane 1 and 2 images that the inner hoof looks higher?  Is this visual a good judge of whether it's actually higher or not?  I have trimmed that inner side of the hoof (the hoof wall) down in the past to make it look like it matches the outer side, only to have him then wear down the outer side to the sole. (this could be remedied by boots after correcting trim?)

Getting frogs on fronts in better health?  I've been treating all with Pete's goo for thrush.  Any other suggestions?

Thanks again.
I look forward to your mark-ups when you have the time.
Best,
Jenny



--
Jenny Heishman and Rico  
Bainbridge Island, WA   June 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenny%20and%20Rico
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60437


Jenny Heishman
 

Hi Lavina,
I think I managed to file the toes back per the information on the radiographs.  I poured over many of your mark-ups for other people and used that information to trim Rico's toes. 

If you do have any time to address my questions about the heels and the hind hoof medio-lateral balance, that would be greatly appreciated, but I don't think a full mark-up is needed and I'm sure you have a very full schedule, so please take that off your list!

thanks,
Jenny

--
Jenny Heishman and Rico  
Bainbridge Island, WA   June 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenny%20and%20Rico
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60437


Jenny Heishman
 

Hi,

Updating our photo album with two comparison images of the re-aligning trim that I have done next to the hoof at the time of the radiographs.
I think I'm on the right track....please, any advice welcome.  Lavinia - if you have a chance to take a quick look that would be helpful.

I also added a photo of Rico's LF in a Flex Hoof boot that we are trying out.  I'm concerned that after all the trimming work to get his toe back, this boot extends about 1/2" beyond the edge of his toe.  I have read Pete Ramey's altering easygloves....so I'm thinking about cutting/rasping the toe of this flex boot at an angle (which feels a bit crazy because I just spent $200 on the pair)  I also tried one size smaller and couldn't get them on his hoof.  Should I just throw in the towel and conclude that this brand of boot doesn't fit his hooves.  I really want Rico to be able to have the proper hoof landing, movement when being ridden.  He has Equine Fusion ultra boots now and they seem to also extend out beyond his toe, was hoping to improve upon that fit.

Thanks for any comments!
-Jenny


--
Jenny Heishman and Rico  
Bainbridge Island, WA   June 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenny%20and%20Rico
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60437


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jenny,

I'm not familiar with Flex Hoof boots so you probably would need to contact them to find out how much play you can have between the toe and the edge of the boot.  To me a 1/2 inch beyond the toe in this size and the size down not fitting says to me that you need to try a different brand for him.  Not all hooves will fit in all boots and better to get your money back than ruin these boots trying to make them fit when they're not right for him.  1/2 inch is beyond a heat fix IME.




Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jenny,

Definite improvement on the toe length. Still not quite there, tho. Heels also need to get moved back so they are properly supporting him. You need to be careful doing this as you can't just rasp them back/down as that will negatively impact the bony column alignment by making the coffin bones more ground parallel. In the rads, the LH and RF were the worst as they were already slightly negative plane. Just by bringing the toes back, you have helped that situation to some degree by removing some of the upward leverage the long toes were creating. Now you need to add finessing the heels back as well.

Agree with Sherry that it looks/sounds like the Flex Hoof boots may not fit him well enough right now to be a viable option. You definitely would need to rasp a large bevel into them but iI don't know if you could place it in the appropriate position on the tread of these boots to make it appropriate for him. And as the trim is still a work in progress, the current size won't be the final one.

Any boot is going to extend beyond the toe. The question becomes whether the design of the boot will allow you to place a breakover on the treads in the proper position or not. Some will, some won't. No boot has the breakover placed int the proper position straight out of the box, unfortunately. If his current boots fit him, I'd rasp a breakover onto those rather than spending the money on the new ones at this point in time.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Maxine McArthur
 

Jenny, I also tried the Flex boots for my horse (fit kit shells) and was disappointed because I like the material, but they did not fit. I too found that the dorsal wall did not seat right into the front of the boot, thus extending breakover. Also, because my horse has a short hoof capsule, the boot shell was rubbing on the coronet band and the boot makers advised not to cut it down. I think the boot would work well for horses with good feet continuously maintained in a barefoot trim, that is, they are a performance boot. I’m not sure how the soft material would go for heat fitting or rasping breakover. For modifying, I still think the Easyboot Gloves are the best. 

I also found there was too much gap between sizes in the Flex boots, especially for a performance boot that has to fit the hoof closely.

Hope this helps.
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Mary M.
 

Hi Jenny, 
I use the Flex boots on all 4 feet for my mare. I cut pads in. At first i used anit-fatique matting made to stand on in garage or something and cut  to fit in boot, than ordered the Kevlar pads that Flexboot offers. Not sure if that is an option during your trial, but that might improve fit.  My case is a little different in that they were a good fit to begin with. Especially for fronts.  Good luck 
--
Mary Marzec, Chelsea MI, 2012
Mary/Katie Case History


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hmm, I have been looking at Flex Boot as a possible boot to try, but their website really doesn't show what the hoof looks like with them on close up.  So I really appreciated your photo Jenny.  It's clear to me that these boots won't work on hooves with breakover set back from the toe and like most hoof boots out there that I've seen, they seem to be designed for pointy toed horses with breakover located much more forward than we like to see.  Too bad.  Of course a lot of horses are trimmed that way so I can see why boots are designed for that.  I have the same problem with Scoot Boots and Equine Fusion boots, but at least I can modify the Equine Fusions into a slightly better breakover (actually, my husband had to use a grinder to do it and our garage smelled like burning rubber for days!).

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Jeanne Q
 

Kirsten I am looking for a change of boots for my Glory.  She has been in Clouds for many months now.  Trying to find something a bit more fitted with an earlier breakover.  Glory is still in recovery mode so not riding or anything.  What Equine Fusion boots are you using?  Do you know if the Fusion Recovery's hold up?  Thanks

--
Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360


Jenny Heishman
 

Hi Kirsten,

Would you be able to send me a photo of your modified Equine Fusion boot?  These are the two boots that I already own and I'd love to see where you put the bevel on them so that I might give it a go.....with a saw or grinder (not looking forward to the burnt rubber smell!)
If possible, let me know if you post it here or
my email is jenny.heishman@...

Thanks!
-Jenny
--
Jenny Heishman and Rico  
Bainbridge Island, WA   June 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenny%20and%20Rico
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60437


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I have Equine Fusion All-Terrain with the leather upper.  Newer models have a washable nylon upper which I would choose over the leather if I bought them again.  They have certainly held up well on the soles but the velcro on the leather uppers is basically worn out, however they still stay on in the paddock.  I had problems with the leather uppers rubbing on rides, requiring socks to protect the pastern, but not in the paddock.  I also sometimes see some bruising on the heel bulbs that I think is from a seam in the leather.  I'm sure the new nylon uppers resolved all these problems.

I can post photos of the bevel when I am home next week, but really we just tried to roll them all around the sides and especially fronts, and the bevel is very subtle because we didn't want to shorten the life of the boot by removing too much, plus it was really hard to do because the rubber soles are very hard to grind!  And we didn't really know what we were doing!  Lol

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Maxine McArthur
 

I have used a brand-new Heller rasp to modify breakover on Fusions. About the same degree of difficulty as rasping a hard dry black hoof in summer. The Gloves are easier to rasp than the Fusions. 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

I' usually use a grinder to add bevels to the treads of boots - it's a lot faster and easier than rasping them manually.

Adding bevels shouldn't impact the life of the boots if you are careful to only add them to the treads.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Jenny, 

I have uploaded pics of beveled and not beveled All Terrain boots in Shaku's photo album.  Like Lavinia said, we just went into the treads.  I can't say I've noticed a difference in his movement but I'll probably add bevels to the slim boots, too, which have a lot less wear because he only has them on his hinds for riding whereas the regulars are used on his fronts for turnout too.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album