Date
1 - 20 of 37
Target's trim
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KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
Vet and farrier are coming Oct 9 to trim Target again. We did a big trim Sept 1 and put clogs on her. The next day we had to take he one off the right front as it made her worse. She has been barefoot on that one, and has had 2 abcesses break through the bottom of her foot at the toe. Until they covered over She was in a pad and bandage. Vet came out Sept 23 and hoof tested her and she didn't react at all, yet she limps when walking on it. I have trouble lifting the RF yet she will lift the LF and stand on her RF. Yesterday she started walking backwards with straight front legs, which she just drags. She is up most of the time and down sometimes. Eating and drinking well( even gained about 35 lbs) drinking and peeing and pooping normally. Her blood work showed her ACTH at 3.77 glucose at 5.9 and insulin at 214. She is on 6mg of pergolide, has had a course of omeprazole, and bute and also is now on antibiotics, as her white count was a bit elevated. I have been monitoring her heart rate each morning and it ranges from 44 bpm to as high as 68 bpm. Does anyone have any suggestions as what to do to help save Target? Thanks.
-- Kathie with Libby and Sweet P Cobble Hill, BC, Canada Aug 2018 Case Histories Target Photos Sweet P Photos Addy Photos Cherokee Photos |
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Helen Connor
Hi Kathie,
Helen from Scappoose here. I'm glad to hear that Target is doing so much better! Her progress is a credit to you and your team of partners, your vet and your trimmer. Kudos to all of you! But it is clear that she's not out of the woods yet. Some of those numbers you reported (ACTH, glucose, and insulin) look suspicious to me. Who did the analysis on the bloodwork? Guelph? Cornell? Other? What has your new vet said about the numbers? I'm sure that someone from ECIR will be with you soon about your message. Just wanted to congratulate you on the progress you've made so far. -- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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Trisha DePietro
Hi Kathie. I know you have done everything to help your little Target. If you could please update Targets Case History that would be really helpful as Target has an extensive story to keep straight. Could you also provide some rationale as to why Target was given Bute? Why did you test her white count? Was she febrile? I'm not sure I have any suggestions for you except to look at her positive signs - She has gained 35 pounds, she is eating and drinking, with normal bowel and bladder functions. "she is up most of the time" That is half the battle with these guys. Her heart rate varies some, but everyones heart rate varies. Where you measuring it for a sign of pain? Also, I don't see any recent pictures of her feet or recent xrays of her feet....it would be really awesome if you have those if you could update your photo album that would be so helpful. Thanks
Trisha DePietro Aug 2018 NH Dolly and Hope's Case Histories https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Trisha%20and%20Dolly%20-%20Hope Dolly's Photos Hope's Photos Primary Responder |
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KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
I have been trying to update the case histories for the past 2 years, and have been unable to figure it out. I have the x rays and hoof pictures as well as the blood work but am unable to put them in the case history. My new vet wanted Target on bute to help with the foot pain. I tried to tell her about ECIR policy about bute but she said it will help with the pain. So far it has not helped and I did stop it about 3 weeks ago. No difference in the pain level. I don't understand how she can be so sore trying to walk when she doesn't test positive for pain with hoof testers. We did a full blood panel to see if there was something else going on with Target. I have a copy of that too. It went to True North. Vets here on the Island don't like to send anywhere else for some reason. I thought the blood looked odd too, with the ACTH so low and the insulin going up from 52.9 to 214. I am at my wits end trying to help her, and don't know what to do next, or is it time to let her go. I just feel she isn't ready to give up yet and don't want to let her down after all she has been through. I really want her to feel better and not having gone through so much only to be put down now. It would be like all the pain she has gone through would have been for nothing. I just don't know what to do next to try to help her. -- Kathie with Libby and Sweet P Cobble Hill, BC, Canada Aug 2018 Case Histories Target Photos Sweet P Photos Addy Photos Cherokee Photos |
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Kathie, it's really important that you provide the units AND lab reference/normal ranges for her bloodwork in your post (if not your case history) as that makes a massive difference interpreting your numbers. If those are SI units then everything appears to fall within the "normal" ranges that U Guelph reports. But we don't know what units True North provides their data in as they are a local lab; we also don't know what their "normal" range is, and it could be different from U Guelph if they use a different assay.
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album |
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Hi Kathie, I had a similar concern about the bloodwork as Helen, Kathie. Could you photograph the blood results and post them in your photo album? I know the CH has been a bugaboo but haven’t you had better luck with the photos? Or, if you use a photo sharing site, you could post a link to it here. Are you using the same device to communicate with us here that you used when attempting to post a case history? Without knowing the lab ranges for the lab your vet used, it’s difficult to interpret them. It’s also important to know whether or not she was fasted. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
The glucose is 5.9mmol/L range is 3.6 - 5.7 the insulin is 214 pmol/L reference range is 28 - 390 and the ACTH is 3.77 pmol/L range 4.62 - 11.66 Aug to Oct. The comments were "mild inflammation with slight baosphilia. Known source? Any resp concerns? Stress hyperglycemia. Insulin is mid-range at this time- may want to consider dynamic testing depending on clinical concern. Acidosis- Sample? Iron- could reflect NSAIDS. ACTH is within reference." Does this help?
-- Kathie with Libby and Sweet P Cobble Hill, BC, Canada Aug 2018 Case Histories Target Photos Sweet P Photos Addy Photos Cherokee Photos |
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. Hi Kathie,
You said, "Vet came out Sept 23 and hoof tested her and she didn't react at all, yet she limps when walking on it. I have trouble lifting the RF yet she will lift the LF and stand on her RF. " Is it possible the pain is coming from further up ? Shoulder, maybe ? Has the vet checked that out, or do you have any reason to think this is possible? Just trying to brainstorm. I know about your CH dilemma. But can you tell us what device you are using to try to get it up? And tell us the steps you do manage to get through before you get stuck? One step at a time might give us an aha moment,yes ? Agree with everyone that it's just so vital to see the whole picture in one place,in order to get Target the very best help . Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Kathie, Photos and pictures would go in Target's photo album here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78889&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0 To upload: YOU NEED TO KNOW WHERE THE PHOTOS AND XRAYS ARE STORED ON YOUR DEVICE! 1 - click on the blue button at the top that says "+Add Photos" 2 - In the "Upload Photos" window that has now opened click on the blue "Browse" button 3 - In the new window that has opened navigate to the location of the photos on your device 4 - Select the photo you want to upload 5 - Click on the "Open" button in that dialog box 6 - You will be back in the "Upload Photos" window. Click the blue "Add" button at the bottom If you have an issue following these steps we need to know where you are having a problem in order for us to help you further.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
Target was not fasted, had been fed her normal ration. We did x rays Aug 4, Sept 1 and will do more Oct 9. I have copies of them and tried to send them to Dr. Kellon, but didn't hear anything back so don't think she got them. I am not able to post photos or x rays to the case history and don't even know what a photo sharing sight is. Sorry, I am so not able to do much on the computer. I know I would be able to get more help for Target if I could use the computer better. The only thing I can see as an improvement is that Target is still alive. She is interested in things around her, nickers whenever you go near. If I happen to leave her gate open she finds it and will walk out to try to eat grass, same if the gate is open into her daughter's paddock. I just need to understand what I can do to help her, I have tried so many different things. My old vet gave up and said to put her down, think of her quality of life etc. etc. She then passed over care to Dr. Bettina. I am determined to help Target, just don't know what else to do. The farrier still thinks the clogs will help, but so far they have not. At $300.00 a set it is getting quite expensive to keep putting them on, only to have to remove them the next day because she is more sore. I know the trim is important and we are trying to get it right. There has just not been enough foot to work with. The trimmer for 2019 kapt taking toe, wall and quarters and leaving the heels, turning her into a club footed horse. We have have to wait until she gets some growth to work with, and that takes time. This is the start of the 6th month with the new vet and farrier. It is all so frustrating.
-- Kathie with Libby and Sweet P Cobble Hill, BC, Canada Aug 2018 Case Histories Target Photos Sweet P Photos Addy Photos Cherokee Photos |
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On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:30 PM, KATHIE DORVAL wrote:
The farrier still thinks the clogs will help, but so far they have not. At $300.00 a set it is getting quite expensive to keep putting them on, only to have to remove them the next day because she is more soreKathie, Target's opinion is super important ( we know you know this) here. There's no percentage in repeating what not only doesn't help, but actually makes things worse. Maybe you could use the money to pay someone to help you navigate your CH and Photos needs. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Kathie, As we have said here over and over again, the use of clogs or any other appliance will only help if the trim is correct. As Lorna already suggested you may want to invest that money in paying somebody who can help you post your pictures and x-rays to Target's photo album and who can also help you update your case history file which will help us help Target.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Kathie, Thanks for getting those x-rays posted. What jumps out at me is that her toes are too long now, although she may have more sole than she did as compared to March. I'll leave it to Lavinia to comment more specifically but there's definitely area for improvement to her trim (as always seems to be the case). She also appears to have some arthritic changes which I'm sure are affecting how she feels as well. Were she mine I would not be putting clogs on her as the trim needs to be much more optimal for them to help - at this point I'd expect them to just be aggravating the stress on her feet which is why you're finding she's sore right after they're put on.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
Is there nothing just recently added to Target's album? I did what you said, went to the case history album, clicked on add photos and chose the x rays and blood test results and dragged them into the space it said to do and pressed add. I think I see them in Target's album. -- Kathie with Libby and Sweet P Cobble Hill, BC, Canada Aug 2018 Case Histories Target Photos Sweet P Photos Addy Photos Cherokee Photos |
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KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
I have had Martha trying to help me with the case history. Also 2 friends and paid someone to try and do it! I have the case histories on my desk top and that is as far as I can get. I am told over and over to get the trim right! We have been trying since April 2020 to correct the mess the trimmer made all or 2019. It takes time to grow out a new hoof and correct a bad trim. How am I supposed to know how to get the trim right? I am relying on my new vet and farrier to know how to do it. I had asked for help with the trimming but because I can't get the pictures in her album, there is no way to get help. -- Kathie with Libby and Sweet P Cobble Hill, BC, Canada Aug 2018 Case Histories Target Photos Sweet P Photos Addy Photos Cherokee Photos |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Kathie, Yes, you were successful in loading the x-rays and the bloodwork photo into the photo album.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Sherry Morse
Kathie, You loaded the photos in her album. I'm sure when Lavinia has a moment she will have comments for you but the trim has deteriorated over the last several months from what I can see. She has more sole, but way too much toe at this point plus some bony changes that are probably causing an issue as well. Letting her toes get longer and putting clogs on them is not going to help and she's showing you this by being more sore after the clogs are applied.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Pictures are there,Kathie. Well done.
I'm sorry if you have said this in another message, but have you changed trimmers since the March pictures ? Were the September rads taken before or after trim? If before trim, when was the last trim done prior to the rads ? Thanks. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Kathie, you did a perfect job of uploading the Photos. Uploading the case history is almost identical, just into the Files section, rather than Photos. You loaded up the last case history for Target, on 2-7-20, but unfortunately the one you uploaded was not the most recent case history. I know you can do it. It’s a matter of naming and organizing your files so you know where to find things on your computer. If I sent you the file in an email, would that help you keep track of what to upload? You’d need to email it to me first as I don’t have it.
-- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Helen Connor
Kathie,
I'm sorry, but I forget if you are giving Target Jiaogulan (J-Herb) for improved circulation in her hooves? -- Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID) Scappoose, OR Member since May 2017 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 |
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