Target's trim


 

I agree, Sandra.  And a trimmer with a knife between you and your horse is much more difficult to confront than a group of imaginary people on a website.  I have no idea whether Lavinia would have time but maybe.  Maybe it’s something she already does on occasion if asked.   Lavinia does offer a markup service which others have used very successfully.  They’re posted here and I like to read them over to learn from them.  You need to have a receptive trimmer, of course, and I’m not sure what she can do with photos of print outs.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Sandra Draibye
 

Lavinia,

I think it is very hard for horse owners to reconcile such different opinions - Kathie has a farrier telling her one thing and ECIR telling her something totally different.  If the farrier is open to a discussion, Lavinia - would you be open to speaking with him?  This is just one of several instances where I have seen this - and it puts horse owners in a very stressful place.  I don't think it can be resolved without open, respectful debate.  Horses for sure would be the winners.  
--
Sandra on Vancouver Island, B.C.
December 2018


 

Hi Kathie,
I’ve learned quite a bit about understanding the X-rays I’ve seen here since I began paying attention.  I still feel like a beginner.  Before that, I must have been totally illiterate.  It occurred to me, when reading your comments about trimming, that maybe nobody has explained what you’re looking at in the X-ray.  Do you feel comfortable that you know what the various structures are that you see in the X-ray and where those features might be located in the photo?
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The radiographs don't lie. The foot is way too long in general, toes  miles ahead of the bones, heels underrun.  Fig . 11 here has some of the same thing going on, but only at the very bottom of the foot https://aaep.org/sites/default/files/issues/proceedings-12proceedings-In-depth_the_Foot_from_Every_Angle-Eggleston.pdf .  The upper 1/2  to 3/4 inch of Target's hoof is trying to grow in tighter too but it can't  because of the trim.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

A lot of toe needs to come off - the crease in the middle of the dorsal wall is a huge red flag that the toe is too long. The latest radiographs confirmed this. That crease was not present in the March photos.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
 

Just added one pic of Target's trim. It appears next to the x rays. What more toe can be taken off? This is the only picture of Shane's trim. Don't know how you can compare his trim to the other trimmer, since this is the only picture I have posted of his trim. The rest have been the other trimmer.
--
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Target Photos
Sweet P Photos
Addy Photos
Cherokee Photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Kathie,

I just want to reiterate that the trim corrections made in early 2019 were exactly what she needed - and needs again now.  She can't regrow a decently aligned hoof wall until the trim fits the bones inside the foot.

By letting her heels and toes get out of control she has developed bone loss and will be painful when she tries to break over from all the pulling on fragile laminae. This also stimulates production of more laminar wedge, making the toe further and further in front of where it should be.  A club foot is defined by the angulation of the bones within the hoof. She did not have a club foot in February 2019.

 Instructions for the clogs have very specific trim parameters, including trimming the heels to the live sole plane and removing all excess toe that does not line up with the coronary band.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Sherry Morse
 

Kathie,

You managed to upload Addie, Libby and Sweet Ps case histories into Target's folder. So you obviously can manage the upload process, now you just need to do that with the latest Case History for Target: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathie%20with%20LIbby%20and%20Sweet%20P%20and%20Target%20and%20Addy%20and%20Cherokee/Target




KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
 

Did anything happen?
--
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Target Photos
Sweet P Photos
Addy Photos
Cherokee Photos


 

Kathie, first try following Sherry’s instructions.  You did a great job using her instructions to upload your photos.  You emailed me files successfully last December, when we were last working on this project.  The problem you had then was that you uploaded the older file, not an updated one.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Kathie,

Agree with Sherry.

Here's what Lavinia replied to you about the trim done in March. The toes have really gotten out in front of her since then.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/248449?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,posterid%3A60186,100,2,200,72772727

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Sherry Morse
 

Kathie,

If you know where the file is on your desktop you can upload it the same way you uploaded the photos.  There's no reason to send them to someone to send back to you.  The most important thing to remember is that you should only upload files that are in a PDF format (end in .pdf)

2 - click on the blue "+New" button
3 - in the drop down list select "Upload File"
4 - in the "Upload File" window that opens - click on the blue "Browse" button
5 - in the "File Upload" window that opens - navigate to the file location
6 - Select the file you want to upload
7 - click the "Open" button in that window
8 - you will be back in the "Upload File" window - click on the blue "Add" button

If you get stuck you need to let us know exactly where in those 7 steps you are having an issue so we can help you.




KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
 

What would I need to email to you? I think there was a problem with the case histories not being in the right format to upload? I think I have them on my desk top. How would I send them from there?
--
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Target Photos
Sweet P Photos
Addy Photos
Cherokee Photos


Sherry Morse
 

From my perspective Rachel was doing a much better job than Shane was.  Target's trim has deteriorated significantly from March until now and while she has grown more sole the fact that her toes are too long is not helping her any.  




KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
 


-- Yes new farrier is Shane and trimmer was Rachel. When he came to see Target for the first time he said he didn't have any foot to trim except heel, but Target was too sore to do that right away. He wanted to wait for more hoof to grow. I have her on Jiaogulan, the custom minerals Dr. Kellon did for me also a gut formula to help with the effects of the bute she was on. Shane took over the farrier work in May 2020 when Rachel moved away. But she had been doing the trimming for the whole year 2019. she took everything except the heel as she said she was afraid to take heel.
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Target Photos
Sweet P Photos
Addy Photos
Cherokee Photos


Lorna Cane
 

So,Kathie, just to be clear, the trimmer you have now is not the same one as the one who did your work in March ? ( sorry , Lyme brain )

-- 

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
 

Yes I now have a new farrier who is trying to fix the mess the trimmer made in 2019. Target had no foot to work with and we have been waiting for hoof to grow. The Sept rads were taken both before the trim and after. I might have only been able to send one or the other. I will check to see which ones were uploaded
--
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Target Photos
Sweet P Photos
Addy Photos
Cherokee Photos


Helen Connor
 

Kathie,

I'm sorry, but I forget if you are giving Target Jiaogulan (J-Herb) for improved circulation in her hooves?


--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
Scappoose, OR
Member since May 2017
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847


 

Kathie, you did a perfect job of uploading the Photos.  Uploading the case history is almost identical, just into the Files section, rather than Photos.  You loaded up the last case history for Target, on 2-7-20, but unfortunately the one you uploaded was not the most recent case history.   I know you can do it.  It’s a matter of naming and organizing your files so you know where to find things on your computer.  If I sent you the file in an email, would that help you keep track of what to upload?   You’d need to email it to me first as I don’t have it.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Lorna Cane
 

Pictures are there,Kathie. Well done.

I'm sorry if you have said this in another message, but have you changed trimmers since the March pictures ?

Were the September rads taken before or after trim? If before trim, when was the last trim done prior to the rads ?

Thanks.


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php