Hello,

so Rio has something stuck in her mouth or her teeth I suspect as is acting weird when she eats. Or vet checked her teeth last time when she took bloods and her teeth were good but now she keeps opening and closing her mouth, licking her lips lots and at times paws at her hay. Other times she seems to not have issues eating and it has been on an off for about 2 days now with this. I have tried to connect with my vet on this but we are having a hard time connecting.  She also thinks something stuck in her teeth or mouth based on the videos I took and sent her.

i have tried to look in her mouth and feel inside but hard when she keeps chewing and don’t want to loose a finger lol.  I also have tried to flush her mouth out on numerous occasions to see if I can dislodge whatever she has in there... but no luck.

so I was wondering does anyone have any tips or tricks to see inside a horse mouth by a horse owner.

as my vet is 2 hours away from me, I worry about hauling her 2 hours one way then back again with her recovering hooves.  Any ideas on that and distance one can travel with a horse or is there a time frame after laminitis that hauling is safer.

i have a clinic that is about 40 minutes from me that could possibly look at her... but it isn’t my regular vet and they are not versed in IR protocols in regards to sedatives. I am thinking that that distance is closer to haul her but not sure if i should even consider hauling her.  Getting a vet out to my area is very tough on short notice so just thing yo find best options. 

Thanks in advance for the suggestions.  
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Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Heather, from your description, that sounds like a pain response to me.  Do you have any banamine you can give her (orally) to see if the chewing stops?  You should probably take her temperature first.  
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You need a flashlight or head lamp. Grasp her tongue and pull it out the side of her  mouth. That will keep her mouth open. You'll need to do it on both sides.

Any equine dentists around?

If she's drinking normally this isn't  an emergency that would necessitate hauling her if she can be seen within a few days. Feed her cubes soupy.

I don't know how you are flushing but a hose works best. You're going to get wet!
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Thanks Dr Kellon!  If I can’t get a vet out before a few days would it be safe to trailer her or what are the protocols for trailering recovering laminitic horses? 
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Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Trailering can be hard on them because of the bumps and jolts forcing sudden weight shifts. With very painful horses it is recommended to bed down the trailer and give them enough room to lie down. Otherwise, use well padded boots and thick floor mats. You can get anti-fatigue mats big enough to go under the front feet relatively inexpensively at home supply stores like Lowe's.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Thanks for the input. She is not lame or in pain I don’t think just is still growing out her hoof capsule though. She is currently in boots with pads but if trailering think I would put her in her cloud boots. I am hoping I can avoid trailering but getting a vet out is proving to be difficult.  I am still working away at her mouth to see if I can dislodge something but due to brutal cold wind and below freezing temps I have not tried the garden hose trick yet.  Just using a dosing gun to flush her mouth out with.  Thanks for the help and advice!
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Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Hello,

I managed to touch base with my regular equine vet about Rio's teeth issue and we discussed some options to try to flush her mouth out as she still suspects something stuck in her mouth or food gets stuck somewhere as the day progresses making her mouth irritated. In the am Rio has no issues eating her hay or cubes, then at her noon feed she also does well with perhaps a few issues of licking and moving opening and closing her mouth.  When her 5:30 meal comes around she has issues with hay and prefers to eat her cubes and there is usually a lot of pawing, tossing of cubes and hay with her nose and general frustration.  Same with the final night feed.  I have been rinsing her mouth out before each feeding hoping to try to dislodge or relieve some of what is causing her issues.  I have not tried the garden hose trick yet due to the cold weather we dipped down into.  

As my vet cannot get out here today or next week, we discussed trying to get the local vet (40 minutes one way) up next week.  I have a call into him today to discuss options and see if he would be open to trying to look at her without sedation.  I have searched the messages and reviewed the files and have some questions on sedation.

Valium is the safest one from my understanding but based on our last experience with it which could have just been a fluke I am hesitant about trying it again. So if we absolutely need to sedate her would the best option be using dormosedan at a lower dose ie half the reg dose?  I also have rescue remedy which I would like to try first.  Are there any interactions with sedatives if the horse is on Invokana and any that would be better to use in conjunction with Invokana than others. As well she is on 2 mgs of Prascend and J herb, chondroitin and arginine.  I would stop the J herb a day or 2 before the vet came out. 

Thoughts?


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Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

I wonder if she has a partial choke.  My daughter has a pony that had similar symptoms.  She was able to reach in and dislodge it but it took awhile with less food and more soupiness to get her back to normal eating.
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i Heather,

Just to add another possibility to consider.

One of my boys went thru something similar: was opening and closing his mouth, twisting his head around, licking his lips and generally moving is tongue around inside his mouth. I tried flushing his mouth, examining it for something being stuck in his teeth and couldn't find anything. Called the vet, who also suspected something was stuck so came out. After examining him thoroughly, it turned out he was having some gas issues and as soon as he passed that, he was fine. It happened a few more time, on and off over a couple of months, then stopped completely. Never did figure out exactly what was causing the problem, so I'm assuming there was something about some of the hay that wasn't agreeing with him 100% as he lived on a dry lot.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Thanks Lavinia for the ideas.  I do think it was something she got stuck in her mouth and each day she is getting better and better but I still want to get the vet out or trailer her to a vet. 

So I posted asking 2 questions.

1) best option for sedation if I need one keeping in mind she is on Invokana.  From my research it looks like maybe Dormasedan?  We tried Valium before and got some weird reaction so want to stay away from that.


2.) if Rio is well controlled with low insulin and glucose levels and not lame, when can she safely be trailered?  Do I have to wait until her hoof has completely grown out? 

She is doing well today with little pawing and chewing issues.  Fingers crossed we are on our way to getting the issue resolved.


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Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Thanks Sherry!  Yes  I saw that and I replied with a question as my horse is not lame and is sound.  What I wondered is there a time frame from when a horse had laminitis to when they can be trailered if they are sound with boots on or do you have to waist a full hoof cycle. That was what I was wondering about. My mare had laminitis at end of Feb and her insulin is currently well controlled according to her last 2 blood tests.  

Rio seems to be more herself today and I am now suspecting she perhaps got a split pea stuck in her tooth or gums as I noticed my other mare acting a bit the same today after she ate her cubes with peas and supps in it.  I’m sure it is irritating as would be like a popcorn kernel stuck in your mouth.  Think I might grind the peas maybe to help stop this in the future.

Thanks again for the help. 
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Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

The full hoof cycle is more for riding when they have our added weight plus tack, and are being asked to trot/canter.  If she's comfortable in boots I wouldn't hesitate to trailer her in padded boots or thick bedding if she needs to see a vet.  You can always take little breaks on the way to let her rest if you are at all worried.

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

Awesome!  Thanks so much and that was what I wanted to know.  I dont plan on hauling her but if I need to now I know.  Since she is not lame I should be able to start doing some ground work with her as long as no turns and what not and tight circles correct.  Want to start driving her or long lining her a bit, as well as doing on our hikes.


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Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm