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2 months after initial laminitis episode


W.phyllis60@...
 


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Phyllis,

Without any bloodwork you have no idea whether she is definitely IR or it's being controlled through her limited diet or not.  Were she mine I would not take a chance on putting her out on pasture without having her in a preferably closed muzzle.  That would include in the winter as well as the rest of the year. 



W.phyllis60@...
 

Hi Sherry,
I know I’m jumping ahead here but trying to prepare for the future with a horse prone to laminitis. This winter when it freezes here in the north will Patches be able to go out on the pasture? And then looking to the spring, I believe I will need a grazing muzzle for her, is that correct? Can she get along with a muzzle that restricts her intake or will it need to be a closed muzzle? There are two horses and 8 acres of orchard grass pasture so I know she will need something. My horse is out 6 hours a day per vet recommendation (after the initial spring work up to full pasture time). What would you recommend for Patches?
Thanks so much,
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Phyllis%20and%20Patches
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I'd like to second that -- you are doing a great job, especially considering she is not your own!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Candice
 

HI Phyllis!

Great news on the mare! Yes keep her booted, especially if she moves more in them and seems more comfortable with them on. More movement the better,a s it aids in the healing process to try to grow out a new hoof capsule with new laminae to hold the foot together (as long as all the triggers for laminitis have been removed). Also, side note for you with boots. Make sure to remove the boots at least once a day for a minimum of an hour to allow the boots to dry out and the feet. You can try to add corn starch inside the boots as well. Be sure to treat the feet for thrush to try to prevent any thrush from occurring if there isn't any to begin with. Many horses have thrush start when their feet are in a tightly closed boot and cut off from air circulation. You can try a mixture of 8 oz 40% zinc (Destine baby diaper rash maximum protection) with 2 teaspoons of copper sulphate powder. Wear gloves when handling because it does get everywhere! You can purchase the copper sulphate from Amazon very easily for around $5.00 USD. I would stay away from anything with gentian violet in it, since it is banned in other countries and linked to causing cancer. 

Keep up the great work taking care of that mare!
--

Candice 

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @ www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


W.phyllis60@...
 

I started putting her out in the sand arena again yesterday. The arena is soft sand and is 36x48 so not large. I also put her back in the boots. Today she ran around quite a bit. She does this when she can’t see my horse outside. She is quiet as long as he is visible. I will be anxious to see how she is tomorrow. She lays down at night but is up all day and has never exhibited the laminitis stance. I am anxious for the markups as I do think this is the key for her right now. The farrier comes back on the 23rd so I’m hoping to have them by then. I will keep her in the boots until then.
Thanks everyone!
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Phyllis%20and%20Patches
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Cheryl Oickle
 

Mine was down with the pain of the abcess that blew out the coronary band 4 months after her founder for 5 days!  I did find during her acute laminitis prior to this she laid down much more and when up had the founder stance and at times walked so slowly like she was walking on nails...heartbreaking any how you see it

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

At one extreme, there's a level of pain that will drop any horse (or human). Beyond that, we have no way of  comparing the pain one horse experiences to another, especially as manifested in their behavior. It's not that simple. For example, the horse is a prey animal whose instinct is to run. Being down is a very vulnerable position. Depending on the individual's personality, they may chose to avoid that as long as possible while another may give in to it. They can't talk so we can't tell what they're thinking.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lorna Cane
 

I've always thought ,too, that some horses are leery of going down, fearing that they might not be able to get back up.
I don't know of any science to back up my suspicion.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


LJ Friedman
 

A question about laminitis, with the horses down, we know that’s not a bad thing. Protecting the feet etc. But when they’re down does that mean they’re in more pain than if they’re not down? I remember when jesse was laminitic  and he was walking like a cripple, pardon the pun, he never went down. Could it be Horse his personality? Or is down always more pain than not down but still walking in a lot of pain?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I think it will help when you get your markups back and a trim done, too, as running around on post-laminitic hooves with long toes could cause further pain/damage, which is a good possibility for why she is sore after.  She's obviously feeling good if she wants to run around, but not really thinking about her feet hurting her after until its too late (I think the adrenalin of running and playing can overshadow any pain at the moment, but then they do feel it after).  Your arena certainly looks like it has lots of soft sand, so I'm thinking its just the trim now and I know you are in the process of sorting that out...  For a now, can you make her turnout area a little smaller with panels?  As Sherry suggested, boots with pads might help too.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Cheryl Oickle
 

In my experience, I let my mare move at her own will in her paddock all the time she was in pain. If she was down , I provided her hay and water as close to her as possible.  Her paddock was about 200x200 so there was room for her to buck and run if she chose. Her run in had lots of bedding for her comfort.
IMO I have never heard of confining them during their acute processes as it can cause more issues.  Motion is lotion

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Sherry Morse
 

If you're seeing any evidence of soreness I would keep her booted. She needs time to grow the injured hoof out and the extra support and cushion can't hurt.




W.phyllis60@...
 

Thanks Sherry,
She is not in boots at this point. She was until she was feeling better and I started letting her out in the arena. Should I still have her in the boots?
Thanks
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Phyllis%20and%20Patches
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Phyllis,

When you can make a direct correlation like that and then she gets better without anything else changing it's probably correct.  Is she in boots at this point?  Personally, as long as she's still in a smallish area I wouldn't be inclined to keep her locked up as movement is the best thing for circulation and keeping them from getting stiff and sore.  Unless she's ridiculously silly she's probably smart enough to self-regulate and keep herself from getting more sore.




W.phyllis60@...
 

Hi Sherry,
One day last week Patches was particularly rambunctious in the arena and was bouncing on her front feet at the door. She was very sore for the next 3 days. I have kept her stalled and she is just now starting to move around better again. Do you think her behavior caused the soreness? She had been doing really well up to that point and there have been no changes to her diet. And how long do I keep her stalled again before letting her back out? Is this just determined by how well she is moving in the stall?
Thanks,
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Phyllis%20and%20Patches
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Phyllis,

If she's not any worse after being out I'd be inclined to continue allowing her out to move around.  It sounds like she's self regulating at this point which is a good thing. 




W.phyllis60@...
 

Hi Sherry,
Using the weight calculator I came up with 1251 as her weight. Currently I suspect her body score is somewhere between 5 and 6, probably closer to 6.
i have been putting her out on the sand arena for the last couple days. She is out for about 3 hours a day while my horse is on pasture. She seems fine when walking in a straight line but occasionally (not always) seems to favor the right front when she turns. And you were right, she does a little bucking and then mostly walks around. Do you think it’s ok for me to continue letting her out?
Thanks!
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Phyllis%20and%20Patches
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


W.phyllis60@...
 

Hi Sherry,
I will put a request out there for markups. I added two more pics of the sole. They are probably not as clean as you would like. I scrubbed with a wire brush so hopefully they are clean enough for analysis. If not I will try again.

She has lost some weight but never really had a big belly in my opinion. I think the vet and others called her obese due to the crest and fatty deposits. She used to have fairly large fatty deposits at the base of her tail which have decreased significantly since she’s been inside on the grass hay diet. The crest used to be hard as a rock but has also decreased in size. I wouldn’t say it is soft and moveable but is not hard either.

Thanks again for all your help.
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Phyllis%20and%20Patches
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Phyllis,

I noticed the other day that we had somebody with 2 different photo links but they both went to the same spot.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382 is also your album, but I'm not sure why both links are different yet still work.

As far as the photos - I see room for improvement in the trim but Lavinia is the expert on those so you'll want to do a post that says something like "Hoof Mark Up Request" so she knows it's for her.

Weight-wise Patches doesn't look too bad here - how does her crest feel though?  Soft and moveable or hard as a rock, somewhere in between?  That may be the best judge of how controlled her IR is at this point.