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Success syringing metformin


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

OK.  You'll need to give 25 to 30 a day.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Amadadelsol@...
 

Yes, Dr Kellon, you're right, sorry, cis-linoleic.
--
Pat and Frigga
Monkton, VT
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252741  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Frigga


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Did you mean cis-linoleic?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Amadadelsol@...
 

Thank you for the thoughts on flax. I found extremely high quality soft gel capsules. Each one has 1000 mg organic, cold expeller pressed oil. Each also contains 550 mg ALA, 150 mg cis-linolenic acid, and 140 mg Oleic acid. Frigga is about 825 lbs. How many capsules would she get per day? Thank you!!
--
Pat and Frigga
Monkton, VT
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252741  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Frigga


Joy V
 

My horse did the same thing with his flax that your horse did.  He suddenly refused anything with flax it in it.  He started eating it again when I bought bulk flax seeds from the feed store that I grind fresh myself.  I can only think that the "fresh" ground packaged flax (it was human grade) that I had previously fed must have been off.  They are far more sensitive to smell and taste than we are.  Now my horse happily eats his bucket of supplements with a cup of ground flax 2x per day. 

It's worth a shot to try and it is much, much cheaper.  Good luck, I hope it works!  (fingers crossed on the blood work for your mare - and curb chain jingles for luck!)


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Amadadelsol@...
 

Thank you to everyone for their helpful comments. A year or so ago, freshly ground flaxseed (organic golden, freshly ground from ND Flax) was part of her normal diet. One day she just stopped eating it. She wouldn't eat any of her food if it was in there. I will try again by buying a new unground, organic bag at at the heath food store and give it a go in a small amount. 

Also, with regard to the oil mixed in with Metformin powder: I add the contents of the suggested vitamin e capsules which does seem to lubricate the syringe and the mixture overall but not much. The Metformin overpowers it a bit as we are doing 16 per syringe. 

Today the vet comes for insulin blood draw and mouth check for ulcers. Keeping fingers crossed that the news is good and we can start lowering dose of Metformin. 🤞🏽
--
Pat and Frigga
Monkton, VT
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252741  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Frigga


 

In keeping with Kristen’s tips, I also make whatever I need to administer into a paste.  I cut the top off a syringe, leaving a small lip around the edge and pack the paste in at that end.  I hate trying to suck up a suspension through a tip because invariably something will plug up the works.  I hadn’t thought about using olive oil but I find that if you don’t remove the plunger to clean it, the syringe will last much longer than otherwise.  Probably not as long as the silicone O-ring model, but I wouldn’t want to hack the top off of one of those.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


kguest@...
 

I use a similar process with small differences so my experience might also be helpful:
1. buy that cheap coffee grinder!
2. I mix the powder with a small amount of olive oil and then add water to make a paste that is easy to syringe; this makes an amount of paste that is easy to give in a single dose (the oil is one of the suggestions I got from this list and it works really well)
3. originally I added peppermint extract to make it more palatable, but have found this is no longer necessary
4. the olive oil in the mixture seems to make the disposable plastic dosing syringes last a lot longer by keeping the rubber parts in good shape (like, months--I tend to lose them before they give up the ghost)
--


Kristen and Jasper, Prince George BC
December 2016
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kristen%20and%20Jasper .
Jasper Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3346 .


Lorna Cane
 

You rock, Pat!

WRT stabilized flax....and I'm sure you're ahead of me, but.....have you ground the whole seeds ? I have noticed an aroma difference between stabilized flax which I have used,and the fresh ground(even several days old,controlled climate).If I can notice something,we can be sure our horses can, in spades.


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Pat, have you tried freshly ground flaxseed, or flaxseed oil?  Just curious.  Even if it is stabilized it might not be fresh enough for her.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Amadadelsol@...
 

Hello,
After using some tips and tricks with Metformin and Prascend I've also come up with some things that have made the daily medicating a bit easier.

The barn staff syringes her AM and PM with Metformin/water 30 min prior to her hard food (Stabul1). They wipe her mouth afterward. I also do a dose midday. I took 500 Metformin pills and poured them into my Vitamix blender which grounded them into a fine powder. Prior to that I weighed her dose of pills and got a gram measurement. After they are in a powder I weigh a snack baggie (accounting for each baggie weighing 1 gram) with the powder. The barn staff has one baggie per dose for ease of use.

She wants nothing to do with any of her supps (Glycocemic, TriAmino, copper, zinc, salt, E, magnesium, chaste tree berry powder, flax) so I cut her pelleted supps from Uckele in half and add to Stabul1 AM to get her adjusting to them. I am hoping to increase to full amount eventually or do another feeding of supps/Stabul1 for PM feeding in the future. In with her Metformin at midday I add TriAmino, E, salt, magnesium, chaste tree powder. I mix it all with water and form a loose paste. After I shoot this in with a 60cc syringe with a big hole cut in the end, I wipe her mouth with a wet rag, put A&D ointment on her lips and mouth corner and give her some Stabul1. I mix her 1.5 tabs Prascend hidden in a size 0 veggie capsule in with the Stabul1 and she eats it up. If she were to find the veggie capsule and refuse to eat it I would use a dog pill popper and get it in her that way. After that she usually drinks. She likes the apple/banana Uckele treats and one trick I have found that helps her eat her morning Stabul1 with pelleted supps is to add a small amount of the crumbles at the bottom of the treat bag over her food. That gets her interested in her food. Often she will require more than 1 cup of Stabul1 to cover up the smell of the Uckele pelleted supps. The only supplement I haven't figured out how to get in her is the stabilized flax. She absolutely goes off everything else if I attempt that. So she has been a little stinker but I'm working on learning patience and being somewhat satisfied about getting most of her supps in. It's not easy though because I want to know that I am doing 100% of what I can to get her well. 
--
Pat and Frigga
Monkton, VT
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252741  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Frigga


 

At Kirsten's suggestion, I'll  summarize what works for us to syringe metformin twice a day. Dr Kellon's suggestions are summarized in the metformin information in Files. I suggest starting with the right equipment before even trying to syringe. 
1. I bought a new inexpensive coffee grinder. It cost the same as good manual pill grinders and turns the hard 1000mg metformin tablets into powder much better. 
2. I bought the large size Wild Cherry Flavored Milk of Magnesia. 26 oz. lasts about a week. 
3. The missing link was reusable 60 cc catheter tip syringes with silicone O-rings. The plunger with a silicone O ring never sticks. These syringes are manufactured for feeding baby animals (Squirrel syringes) or for enteral feeding.  https://www.amazon.com/UrnConcern-Feeding-Syringe-Reusable-Silicone/dp/B081ZFZD5C/

I grind the metformin dose to a fine powder and pour the powder into 45 ml pre-measured milk of magnesia. I cover and shake a few times until the grittiness of the ground metformin is mostly gone, about 5-8 minutes. I draw half the mixture into each of two syringes. Dividing the dose allows me to comfortably position my thumb on the plunger and smoothly syringe one-handed. My horse is cooperative so long as I can syringe slowly in roughly 3 squirts per syringe. When we're done, I wipe her lips, especially the corners, with a very wet cloth. Then I rinse her mouth with a hose. I doubt this mixture of metformin and milk of magnesia causes sores, but undissolved metformin grit could, so I still rinse out her mouth. As a reward, I give my horse a tiny treat feed (about a cup of FORCO for now) to get the saliva flowing. 

Hope this helps anyone frustrated by disposable single-use syringes.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
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