Was:(Latest Update On Vinnie nad the Veil) Now questions metabolic body changes .


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi again,, questions about the best path forward...

Note I have a line( thanks to Anthie) on a nice meadow grass  that is low s/s and iron and looks overall better than what I have been feeding that that I am going to try.. but in the meantime until I can get the new hay to try, I  am not liking the body changes the last week or so that I am seeing on Vinnie.. in the interim should I try to convert some lb of hay to tc balance cubes or should I stick with my current hay (blue grass) and soak and rinse until I can get some of the meadow next week?  I loaded an image from two days ago..check out the Oct image to now..subtle but his metabolics are off, he looks more metabolic even though his core looks a little stronger. 

He did seem a little more foot sore last couple days too and he was super grumpy with my husband on Monday so even my hubby notices somthing odd...i had attributed that to some antics during our walk.. levade, bucking in place etc... (he was responding to a very loud gal boisterous gal in the arena (heehee)) but now I am wondering if this is all related to an insulin spike?  

Could this be ppid uncontrolled or related to the hay that is really high in iron. Esc plus starch are acceptable. 

OPTIONS:

Should I soak hay (blue grass which is really too high in Iron or, add more lb of cubes to offset hay, or add metformin or add a little more prascend?? I can confer with my vet too but ideas welcomed.
Note: I do have a couple bales of timothy that are higher in sugar (around 9.4 esc/starch) than the blue grass but it is much, much better iron wise. If I recall the adf is comparable too. Would this be a better option to soak knowing i can't soak iron out of the blue grass..He hasn't been eating the Timothy hay so I would have to transition him.

Please let me know what the best solution would be for the quickest result. 

Thank you!! Nan
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Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
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Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
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Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Update, tonight I soaked hay for dinner ans already I notice a change in the softness if his neck and crest. So definitely hay is part if our challenge. I will soak until I can get my new hay on board.
Still wondering which is the better option the blue or the timothy in terms of the best of the two to soak?
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Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
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Summer
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Kirsten Rasmussen
 

If he is getting foot sore I'd start soaking right away, so I'm glad you did.  I always seem to miss the signs of a laminitic flareup coming on and never start soaking soon enough to stop it.  I'd be worried about feeding the timothy if he is getting sore on the blue grass, which has significantly lower ESC+starch.

Have you tested your soaked blue grass for iron?  It could be lower if you are rinsing it well after soaking because if it's dirt contamination some of it will wash out.  It could also be lower if you resample and have it tested again if your first one just happened to go through a clump of dirt.  Do you find dirt in the blue grass hay?

I am in favor of trying more pergolide, too.  I think if he was mine I'd aim for the 1mg dose and then re-evaluate whether that helped at all.  If it did, I would consider increasing it again to see if further improvements in his signs of PPID occur.

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All things being equal in terms of introducing hay, I'd choose the timothy. NDF at 60% is acceptable to both my 17 yo mares, though they prefer it lower.

The blue grass analysis was probably from a contaminated sample because iron that high is far outside the norm. If you check the Equi-Analytical grass hay profile, you'll see that for 49,000+ samples grass hay samples, 732 ppm iron is way outside the normal range of 0 to 486.9 ppm. 

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Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Unfortunately this hay consistently tested high in Iron, even last years hay was high.  Anthie ran another test on a batch that she shook  dust out and it still came back in the mid 400's which is better than 732. The iron in this hay has been a concern of mine because of the constant fluctuations in his crest. But the options I had were limited for low esc+starch.  Thankfully I have a few more options now..just a little further away to go get it :)

I will talk to my vet about increasing pergolide, I suppose it can't hurt and if he continues to improve on it then perhaps that will shed light and we can retest in the beginning of the year.

Just soaking the last three meals has made a big difference. He is happier I can tell and this morning was very excited to be fed which was nice to see. He has been a little lack luster about food lately which is not Vinnie the chow hound.  I gave him alongsidr his soaked hay,, the Glycocemic eq with some cbd pellets and he at that right away.
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Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
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Summer
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