Relevante trim mark-ups


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Lynn,

I've added the latest mark-ups to Relevante's album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=36909&p=Created,,,50,2,0,0

Thanks for doing another round of radiographs to keep tabs on the hind feet. The rads show that although things are much improved from where they started, they aren't quite there yet. Because his heels still are underrun, you need to keep guarding the precious amount of vertical heel height that 's developed to keep the positive changes made to the HPA in place. Toes can come back a tad more as well as getting a much more aggressive roll on them. This is true for all four but esp. needed for the hinds. Fronts are looking pretty good now so it's more about tweaking things rather than making huge changes to them. Small amounts of wall flaring that is growing out is still evident so just continue to work on that until it is finally gone.

LH lateral composite: On the rad, the pink line shows how the bony column should align. It continues past the tip of the coffin bone, to end where the toe should end and at the depth you'd like to see for the sole. The purple line shows how the bony column actually aligns.Note that it still dips back and away from the pink line but this is a much smaller deviation that you started with, so still making huge progress. There is actually more sole depth than there appears to be but unfortunately, the rads were shot from somewhat below the foot, pointing slightly upward and thru the block so the view is a bit distorted, making it appear as if the soles are very thin when they are not. The blue area is where the toe needs to be backed and rolled more. Red line denotes the need to add more height to the back half of the foot relative to the front half.
On the photo, the blue area corresponds to the blue on the radiograph = backing the toe as well as adding a good mustang roll to it.

LH dorsal: Green line highlights the medial wall flare in the bottom 1/3 of the hoof. Bring that inward to align with angle from above.

LH sole: Blue hashed areas are where the walls need to be be brought inward and rolled. At the toe, it's where to both bring the horizontal length back and roll it. From the purple line forward, lower the front half of the foot slightly in addition to bringing it back and rolling the toe. Don't shave the sole itself, just lower the walls to sole height. Yellow hashes along the leading edge of the bar are where the flap of overgrown bar is ready to be removed. Orange circles are where to leave the high point for the heel buttresses. Bevel the outer wall away and allow the heel-bar junction to become the new buttress. This will preserve the vertical height while helping the heels to relax down so they start moving back.

RH lateral composite: Same discussion and goals as for the LH.

RH dorsal: Again, green line shows where the remaining wall flare is. Bring it inward to align with the angle of the healthier growth above it.

RH sole: Same idea as the LH. More of the bars seem to be ready to let go, so they can be encouraged to do so. It is likely both the medial and lateral are in the same situation, although I only marked the lateral one. Again, lower the foot in the front half - from the purple line forward - slightly but don't shave the sole itself.

LF lateral: Blue area is where to back and then roll the toes to get them back a tad more plus get an easier breakover in place.

LF sole: Blue hashed areas around the entire perimeter can be rolled, with the most aggressive roll at the toe after it is brought back a bit more. Yellow hashes are the leading edges of the bars and sole sole that appears to be letting loose around the tip of the frog. Lightly remove what is ready to go but be careful not to get too aggressive with this. Leave the rest of the sole alone. Orange circles are where to set up the heel buttresses to maintain the current heel height while encouraging the heels to stand up straighter.

RF lateral: Same discussion as the LF. Double check the lateral heel height as it appears to be slightly taller.

RF sole: Apply the same principles as on the LF.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Lynn
 

Hi Lavinia,
We spent considerable time attempting to adhere to your directions above. Particularly...
Blue hashed areas around the entire perimeter can be rolled, with the most aggressive roll at the toe after it is brought back a bit more. Yellow hashes are the leading edges of the bars and sole sole that appears to be letting loose around the tip of the frog. Lightly remove what is ready to go but be careful not to get too aggressive with this. Leave the rest of the sole alone. Orange circles are where to set up the heel buttresses to maintain the current heel height while encouraging the heels to stand up straighter
I took photos [or tried] during the trim and we tried to compare with the markups. I have had the feeling more than once this fall that at the time of trim  it “looks” like we’ve achieved the goal of those particular markups but then when I see the next set I know we still didn't do quite enough. It is amazing to me each time how much he has “grown out” since the previous trim. Do you feel we should go to 3 weeks for now instead of 4? Are we are chasing ourselves a bit because we just aren’t being quite aggressive enough?
I threw up LH and RH laterals immediately following the trim just to compare. I'll get more later this week. He was actually sore after we were done so I spent the time finishing deep cleaning his stall and putting in some deep bedding with pellets. [He is fine now].
Thanks again so much - don't know what we would do without you.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Hi, Lynn.

As someone who struggles with a horse with long toes and underrun heels, I have a silly suggestion that helps me better visualize the trim and the real length of the toes.

I try to keep the hair all around the coronary band trimmed even in winter. It’s so much easier to see the shape and length of the hoof that way. I just did it this week because Cayuse was clicking with every step as she overreaches behind. I was shocked how long her toes have gotten. The breakover of her front hooves (and the hinds!) needs a major adjustment. I don’t have Lavinia’s X-ray vision. I need all the props I can come up with.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Lynn
 

Cass! I think that is brilliant. And, in fact, I was thinking he was getting rather shaggy and I should probably trim that hair. But i completely agree with you. I just finally moved back into my house two weeks ago after the tornado in 2019. I think i can find the clippers...LOL - thank you for the verification!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Bobbie Day
 

I read something the other day which makes total sense and not sure why it didn’t occur to me! Someone suggested after a fresh trim on a laminitic horse (frequent trim anyway) to mark the toe and heel if need be with nail polish and watch it, as soon as it moves up you’ll know when to trim. Is this just too simple to make sense?
I’m going to try it though, I guess it wouldn’t work for the rest of the hoof but it would be helpful to keep the toes back.
Merry Christmas everyone 🎁🌲⛄️


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


 

Thanks, Bobbie.  It would make more sense to me if the nail polish were applied at the coronet band, which is where the new growth occurs.  Then you could follow as the mark moves down.  Perhaps that’s what was intended.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Thanks for that reminder, Cass. It is definitely helpful to be able to see the coronary band - and esp. the angle of the new growth coming in below it - clearly.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Lynn
 

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions/input. I will search through my boxes, find my trimmer and get that done sometime this weekend while the trim is fresh. I will also try and take some photos so I can compare them post trim to those I'll take in 4 weeks for markups. Really appreciate everyone's time - especially considering it's Christmas Eve! I hope you all have a blessed holiday! I may get in trouble for this...LOL..but the boy wanted to say Merry Christmas too with a couple special photos I added to his album.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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The Christmas photos of Relevant are exceptional, Lynn.  Thank you!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Cindy Giovanetti
 

I don't understand. How could the mark move up?

Cindy

Someone suggested after a fresh trim on a laminitic horse
(frequent trim anyway) to mark the toe and heel if need be with nail polish
and watch it, as soon as it moves up you’ll know when to trim.


Lorna Cane
 

I'm thinking if polish is placed on toe(as opposed to coronary band) it would  move up as toe grows down (long). Yes ?
I'd worry about the mark disappearing ,just from abrasion from ground.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lynn
 

Hi Cindy - I think the idea regarding Bobbi's suggestion was that if you paint the toe and heel post trim...the mark would move up as the foot grew out over the next four weeks. Martha's suggestion was...
It would make more sense to me if the nail polish were applied at the coronet band, which is where the new growth occurs.  Then you could follow as the mark moves down.  Perhaps that’s what was intended.
An interesting experiment to try! 
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Lynn
 

Lorna - i didn't see your response...sorry for the duplication. Yes...I think you are right on both counts. From a practical standpoint ...since Relevante has a private paddock that is a dry lot it gets somewhat muddy this time of year so I think you are right about the potential for abrasion if the mark were placed at the toe.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


 

Please let me know if I’m misunderstanding.  If you paint around the hoof along the edge that hits the ground, when you check on it 5 weeks later, the mark will be in the same place, assuming it hasn’t been worn off.  What would be the difference you’d measure?
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Sherry Morse
 

The distance from the mark to the coronary band will be increased as the hoof grows out but I don't expect the mark would last a full trim cycle. 




Lynn
 

Well  - when i trim the hair in the next few days...I'll put some nail polish in both spots for an empirical experiment and let you all know what actually happens. LOL
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Lorna Cane
 

Yes, of course !
Jeesh.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lorna Cane
 

And anyway, may as well open my mouth again and remove all doubt( thanks Mark Twain) all one needs to do is measure from toe to coronary band,no mark needed.
The distances can be recorded to note hoof growth.
Or a few good lateral shots ,over time, will show the growth as well.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Lynn
 

Well duh! That is certainly no doubt the most accurate way to chart growth! Thanks Lorna (love Mark Twain).
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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