Hi, I was told about this group.  

I am trying the emergency diet for my mini x Shetland because recently he has gotten very sore.  He has struggled with laminitis for years... I have had him for one year and he was doing fine till recently.  

For the emergency diet can I feed wheat straw in replacement for some of the hay?  I am feeding beatpulp... is it 2 lbs dry or 2 lbs wet that I am supposed to feed him?  

I have sourced Timothy hay, should I switch the hay over instantly or over a period time?  I am pretty sure it’s our hay that is the issue... nothing else has changed.  

thanks for this group.  So much helpful info!!
charmyn - from the Yukon. 

Hi Charmyn

Welcome.  I'm so sorry your pony is sore. Shortly, you will receive the official welcome, packed with lots of good info. In the meanwhile, I wanted to address your initial questions.

Straw is not guaranteed to be low sugar/starch. In addition wheat straw would concern me because it may have high starch. Starch cannot be soaked out.

Going a little slowly to switch him over to a new hay will allow his gut to adjust, especially if the hay is from a different grower/supplier.

Testing the hay will tell you exactly what you have. You may have already found the info, but JIC, here is our website page on Diet, including testing your hay.

https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diet.php

I have privately sent you instructions on how to begin your Case History.

Hope this helps.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA

Hello Charmyn

Welcome to the group! I have a long but very informative official welcome letter for you but it is totally worth a read and you can save it as a reference to keep coming back to. It will cover Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise (when the pony is comfortable).

Nancy has given you the link to the Emergency Diet (also covered further down in the welcome letter below), it can be found further down that page. Grass hay is best and if not tested to be safe, you should soak it for 1 hour and drain the water away where the pony can't get to it. I personally find it easier to stuff the hay into a hay net and soak the whole thing. Lift and hang the net somewhere away to drain. Hot water can be used to soak and cuts the soak time down to 30mins as I see you are in Canada and assume it must be very cold. As for beet bulp it should be unmolassed and we recommend that it be rinsed, soaked and rinsed again (RSR). This will remove as much iron as possible. The amount of beet pulp to feed is usually the minimum amount that you need to mix your supplements, salt and flaxseed into to get your pony to eat it. Some trial and error is needed but I would start more with something like 1.5 cups of RSR beet pulp as that volume gives you something to mix in. Salt will probably be 1 teaspoon as a start. The amount of flaxseed recommended is for 1000lb horse so scale down accordingly for your mini-shetland. No grass and no treats. There are ideas for healthy treats in this group when your little guy settles.

Also at this size, you may be able to duct tape on eva foam pads cut out from cheap children's gym or play mats (they are interlocking foam mats) so that the bottoms of his feet are padded for comfort. You can tape on by overlaying duct tape strips to make a square before you apply to the pad and hoof. Cut down the excess below the hairline.

Without further ado, here is the welcome letter so get a cup of your beverage of choice and take your time to go through it. Please let us know if you have questions.

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquette, what goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

• low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
• low fat (4% or less) 
• mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers. 

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISE: The best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.

--

Thank you so much.  There is a lot of info to go through. 

We are in northern Canada, so soaking the hay is not really a possibility because it is winter and it will freeze right away.  Also we don’t have a well on our land.  Is there any other way to reduce sugars in hay? 

thanks,

--
Charmyn 
Yukon, Canada
joined Jan 2021

Hi Charmyn, 

If you can find a way to soak the hay, you might find your horse doesn't mind eating it as it freezes.  That has been the experience of some of our northern members soaking hay in the winter.  That is the only way to reduce sugars in hay.  You could instead cut out everything extra you are feeding as often it is a pellet-type feed that is causing the problem.  The vast majority of extras are not safe for EMS horses.  And since insulin goes up in cold temps, and people usually feed extra then for calories and warmth, it's not surprising to have laminitis occurring even if the horse was stable all year.

Another option, especially for a very small horse, is to buy your hay from a supplier that guarantees low "WSC" hay.   This is the low sugar hay I buy in Alberta: https://transfeeder.ca/product/diet-blend/
Their hay usually tests about 7% ESC + starch, which is safe enough for most EMS horses that you don't need to soak it.  Their hay is compressed, stacked on pallets, strapped and shrink wrapped in place and you can either pick it up, or have it sent via truck.  It's more expensive but a mini won't eat a lot so it might be doable.  They sell hay year-round so you could contact them any time.  Because it's compressed the hay is much heavier than it appears so you work out what you need to feed in weight, then figure out (or ask them to figure out) how many pallets that would be.  For example, my 900 lb horse needs about 3 pallets for a full year if fed 15lbs/day.  It takes up about 1/3 or less storage space as normal bales.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125

Here's a recent blog from Dr Kellon on straw that might be of interest.

https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/let-them-eat-straw/

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA

Thanks so much for this info!  Because I have to haul all of the water for our farm it would be very difficult to soak hay (also we get pretty chilly temperatures up here). But the compressed Low sugar hay sounds like a good plan. 

I will look into getting this hay!!! 

And about the straw.  We offer free feed straw at all times to replace their pasture option in summer.  They still get their hay feedings, but if they eat it up quickly then they have something to munch till next meal.  

my little guy isn’t much of a food hog and normally has hay left over between meals. 

--
Charmyn 
Yukon, Canada
joined Jan 2021

Hmm, if he's not much of a food hog, but gets recurring laminitis I would have him tested for PPID, which is a common cause of autumn laminitis.  Usually EMS (or insulin resustant) horses ARE food hogs, but the ones with PPID often are not.  You can have his metabolic status (insulin and glucose) and PPID test (ACTH) done from one non-fasting blood pull.  Have you had bloodwork done already?  PPID can be managed with pergolide/Prascend if he is positive,  and that will prevent laminitis.  

Of course there are other reasons for not finishing hay, both good and bad.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Kirsten, would it be possible for Charmyn to source timothy balance cubes that far north?  
--

I'm sure they could get shipped up via truck transport from Edmonton...so Charmyn, that is another option.  I think the compressed hay would be cheaper overall, but its hard to say which is cheapes when you factor in freight.  You could try sourcing the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes.  http://www.ontariodehy.com/index.html#shop01-5
They are guaranteed to be safe, below 10% ESC + starch (approx 7% as well), but they are ALSO mineral balanced so your horse would not need additional minerals other than vit E and ground flax and salt!  They are also good if your horse is older and has dental issues because they can be fed soaked as a mash.  I feed them as a treat, many feed them as a base for adding supplements or medications.  If you contact Aurelio at Ontario Dehy directly he can help you figure out how to source them, or perhaps your feed store will bring them in if you will order a full pallet at once (I believe that is is 50 x 50-lb bags).

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Hello,
I am so grateful for this group! So much great info. 

When I got his xrays I asked the vet about the blood test and they didn’t think he had any symptoms so they advised against it. 

I am trying to figure out how to get water to soak hay.  We are remote, so it’s tricky.  

the local feed store had a product called Step Right CR ProFibre crunch.  It says it is made for horses with metabolic issues and promises lower than 10% starch/sugar.  It says I can feed it as a replacement for a portion of their hay.  

currently I am feeding Soaked and Rinsed beatpulp with salt and tumeric.  A small portion of the original hay.  A small portion of Timothy hay from down south.  I can do some math and add in this profibre.  I’m hoping this should be a good diet until I can source shipping for the compressed hay. 

next big question.  Advice for trimming?  

I have taped a foam pad to his feet.  My friend has boots, so by the end of today I should have those on him.  

thanks,

--
Charmyn 
Yukon, Canada
joined Jan 2021 

The CR Pro Fibre Crunch was analyzed by Mad Barn and found to have WAY over the 10% cut off, with 16% starch!  Definitely do not feed this to your mini.  Better to feed the hay soaked.  I have been giving 1/2 cup a day to my full size horse as a taste tempter, but dropped it to 1/4 cup once I saw the Mad Barn analysis and am considering dropping it altogether as it is not needed.

Turmeric is not recommended either.  But without bloodwork you don't know how severe your mini's EMS is.  This group really operates on Diagnosis first.  You can make dietary and trim changes right away of course, but always keep in mind that without a diagnosis you don't know what you are dealing with and how severe it is.  If PPID is part of this, too, you can make all the dietary changes you like but the disease is only controlled with medication so all your other efforts won't prevent disease progression and laminitis.  Highly recommend getting baseline (non fasting) insulin, glucose and ACTH checked.

-- 
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album
--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Hello,
ok, so I won’t feed the pro-fibre crunch.  
I’m curious why tumeric is not recommended?  It is It is such a great anti-inflammatory and pain killer.  

I don’t know what to feed him right now. 

 I am waiting for the hay test results to come back on my hay and southern hay.  I have raked up all the straw.  I am feeding him soaked and rinsed beet pulp.  I would have to move him in order to be able to soak his hay, but then I couldn’t be there to feed him.  Soaking hay uses up our very limited water for my entire family (we just recently got running water, we use to live off of blue jugs).  Once summer is here we can use rain water and it would be possible to soak hay.  

If it needs to be 10c to test him then we will have to wait until May to test him.  I can ask my vet.  Can we just take him inside, where it is warmer, for a period of time to get the test?  Right now it’s -20c. 

It is re-occurring laminitis, but since I got him a year ago he has been fine living on our hay in his diet/grass-less pen with his buddy.  

where would I upload the pictures to? 

thanks,

--
Charmyn 
Yukon, Canada
joined Jan 2021

Thank you Sherry!

 I have tried the case study, but kept getting lost on my phone.  So I will try it from a computer.  
I keep getting a bit lost on this site, but there is so much helpful info.  I will do some searching and a lot more reading.    

thanks for all the help.  It is a bit overwhelming.

--
Charmyn 
Yukon, Canada
joined Jan 2021