Question on thyroid and Mad Barn Amino Trace


Sandy
 

Hi all,
On my way out the door but had a couple questions for you.  I have a container of the Mad Barn Amino Trace coming.  My minis are very picky. Just curious for anyone else using it, have you found your horses eat it easily or no?   If mine will eat by itself, that would be ideal (it's pelleted).

Also, has anyone had a horse with hypothyroid and had it normalize with just a change in diet, adding kelp and vit E?  I am sort of an all natural type person if possible.  I corrected my own thyroid with use of supplements and would really prefer not to use thyroid meds and stop the thyroid from functioning properly.  Eventually they will be hopefully in a rescue home (please don't condemn me - I know it sounds awful but I can't do dry lots here, nor can we pay long term for all the care they will need - I've actually been looking for a good home way before they had health problems so I'm not just 'dumping' my horses because they have health problems.)  I was hoping to avoid thyroid meds for the new owners also to help them.  In the meantime, I'm doing all I can for them.  I was thinking of using my cold laser on them to help with the laminitis currently - anyone use that?  (I was a massage therapist for dogs before my own health issues stopped me, and have one I use for dogs which I'm sure will work on horses).  Would I apply it to the souls of feet ?

This weekend I hope to give more info that you need on them.

--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Minis with laminitis/cushings
2021


jmc
 

I've been using AT+ for a little over a year now. My horse eats it, no problem, in his soup (I only soak the cubes, at dinner I add the supps and more water)

The mini mules used to eat it no problem. We lost one in November, but the remaining mini mule ate it fine until about a month ago - but the volume of her meal is much less because she won't eat wet feed (I skim the top layer of soaked cubes for her). Im currently trying to find a way to get her to eat it consistently.
--
Jodi
June 2018
NW Wyoming

Yankee Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jodi%20and%20Yankee

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=54386


Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Sandy. Red light therapy can be used on the TING points of the hooves. I do not believe there is any research on if it helps with laminitis inflammation or laminitic pain specifically. I do not think it would hurt them. But you would have to try it and see how it goes. Not sure which Red light you are using, but the folks who sell them are helpfull with anecdotal information and may have some research on the effects on laminitis. IF you want to relieve pain, I would support their little hooves with baby diapers cut to create a pad and duct tape them to their feet....that should give them some support and its cheap and easy to do. 

Sorry I can't help with the thyroid information. I too like to try natural remedies, but during a crisis I prefer to get my horses comfortable first with "western" medicine and then combine the "eastern" medicine after stabilization to maintain and enhance.


--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Cheryl Oickle
 

My horse would NOT eat the amino trace. She could sniff out even a couple of pellets. I tried and tried. She will take the Omeity p from Mad Barn though.



--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I worked with Dr. Alan Klide https://www.amazon.com/Veterinary-Acupuncture-Alan-M-Klide/dp/0812218396 , using both needle and electroacupuncture on horses with laminitis.  Very poor results on the cases I have seen.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


 

Sandy,
The smart way to start minerals is to make sure your mares will eat the carrier first. Dampen it just slightly, add a teaspoon salt, and feed it instead of "grain." Once that's accepted, add in stabilized ground flax seed. Horses generally like it. Once that's accepted, add in Vitamin E gel caps with oil. Without a case history, I don't know the weight of your mares, but 1000 IU of Vitamin E in gel caps with oil would be safe. If you're using 400 IU gel caps, then you need to add 3. Once that's accepted....you get the idea. Go slowly. After Amino Trace arrives, add it a teaspoon at a time. Horses used to sweet feed can take a while a accept safe carriers. I haven't read through all your posts to scrape up the details of your mares' weights and your feeds, so I'm not sure what carriers you're using. A case history would be a help.

As for hypothyroidism, two issues occur often. One is that horses haven't been fed adequate Iodine and Selenium in the diet. Both are required by the thyroid gland to operate normally. The second is that severe EMS or PPID (or other disease) can affect the thyroid function, causing a condition called Euthyroid Sick Syndrome. Correct the underlying nutritional and health issue, and thyroid levels normalize. Here's a message from Dr Kellon explaining Euthyroid Sick Syndrome: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/256520 Bottom line: get your mares the essential nutrients they require and control their metabolic conditions. If and when you're ready to recheck thyroid function, post again to learn the details of better thyroid tests than T4 alone. My Diamond arrived with very low whole blood selenium and who knows what level for prior iodine supplementation. Her T4 thyroid test was very very low, 0.164 when the normal range is 1-3 ug/dl.  Thyroid tests were normal after 9 months of proper nutrition.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Sandy
 

I will continue it and hope she maybe gets used to it and eats it better.  She refused it but it's new so .....

Sandy

On 3/11/2021 1:21 PM, jmc wrote:
I've been using AT+ for a little over a year now. My horse eats it, no problem, in his soup (I only soak the cubes, at dinner I add the supps and more water)

The mini mules used to eat it no problem. We lost one in November, but the remaining mini mule ate it fine until about a month ago - but the volume of her meal is much less because she won't eat wet feed (I skim the top layer of soaked cubes for her). Im currently trying to find a way to get her to eat it consistently.
--
Jodi
June 2018
NW Wyoming

Yankee Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jodi%20and%20Yankee

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=54386
_._,_._,_



--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Minis with laminitis/cushings
2021


Sandy
 

Thanks for the info Trisha - interesting on the diapers.  lol   I did buy it from a chiropractor who works with horses and dogs and yes he may be able to help me with using it for that (It's a Vetrolaser).  Maybe I'll e-mail him to see.

Sandy

On 3/11/2021 1:21 PM, Trisha DePietro wrote:
Hi Sandy. Red light therapy can be used on the TING points of the hooves. I do not believe there is any research on if it helps with laminitis inflammation or laminitic pain specifically. I do not think it would hurt them. But you would have to try it and see how it goes. Not sure which Red light you are using, but the folks who sell them are helpfull with anecdotal information and may have some research on the effects on laminitis. IF you want to relieve pain, I would support their little hooves with baby diapers cut to create a pad and duct tape them to their feet....that should give them some support and its cheap and easy to do. 

Sorry I can't help with the thyroid information. I too like to try natural remedies, but during a crisis I prefer to get my horses comfortable first with "western" medicine and then combine the "eastern" medicine after stabilization to maintain and enhance.


--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder
_._,_._,_



--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Minis with laminitis/cushings
2021


Sandy
 

I fear it may be the same here but gotta try I guess.

Sandy

On 3/11/2021 2:10 PM, Cheryl Oickle wrote:
My horse would NOT eat the amino trace. She could sniff out even a couple of pellets. I tried and tried. She will take the Omeity p from Mad Barn though.



--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063
_._,_._,_



--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Minis with laminitis/cushings
2021


Sandy
 

Ok sounds good - have to get some Vit E oil (do you all use this even if it's in the vit/min mix?).  The mares are around 325-350 lbs.   They have never gotten sweet feed, only 1/4 cup of a pelleted ration balancer (probably they are lacking things).

Yes on the hypothyroidism and why I was asking.  I feel they are probably lacking in nutrients and with the cushing's and IR etc it created a problem with the thyroid.  I feel like maybe I should wait on using the thyroxine as I'm not sure if when you start it, you can stop.  I wish vets (and doctors) would understand the need for full thyroid panels and not just T4 ...... went through this with dogs and with myself as well.

Thanks for the info.  So much to learn ;-)

Sandy

On 3/11/2021 2:47 PM, Cass in NorCal wrote:
Sandy,
The smart way to start minerals is to make sure your mares will eat the carrier first. Dampen it just slightly, add a teaspoon salt, and feed it instead of "grain." Once that's accepted, add in stabilized ground flax seed. Horses generally like it. Once that's accepted, add in Vitamin E gel caps with oil. Without a case history, I don't know the weight of your mares, but 1000 IU of Vitamin E in gel caps with oil would be safe. If you're using 400 IU gel caps, then you need to add 3. Once that's accepted....you get the idea. Go slowly. After Amino Trace arrives, add it a teaspoon at a time. Horses used to sweet feed can take a while a accept safe carriers. I haven't read through all your posts to scrape up the details of your mares' weights and your feeds, so I'm not sure what carriers you're using. A case history would be a help.

As for hypothyroidism, two issues occur often. One is that horses haven't been fed adequate Iodine and Selenium in the diet. Both are required by the thyroid gland to operate normally. The second is that severe EMS or PPID (or other disease) can affect the thyroid function, causing a condition called Euthyroid Sick Syndrome. Correct the underlying nutritional and health issue, and thyroid levels normalize. Here's a message from Dr Kellon explaining Euthyroid Sick Syndrome: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/256520 Bottom line: get your mares the essential nutrients they require and control their metabolic conditions. If and when you're ready to recheck thyroid function, post again to learn the details of better thyroid tests than T4 alone. My Diamond arrived with very low whole blood selenium and who knows what level for prior iodine supplementation. Her T4 thyroid test was very very low, 0.164 when the normal range is 1-3 ug/dl.  Thyroid tests were normal after 9 months of proper nutrition.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos
_._,_._,_



--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Minis with laminitis/cushings
2021


 

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 02:10 PM, Sandy wrote:
have to get some Vit E oil (do you all use this even if it's in the vit/min mix?).  The mares are around 325-350 lbs.
At 350 pounds, your mares weigh roughly 159 kg and need about 318 IU of Vitamin E daily (2 IU/kg). Rounding up to 400 IU is fine, too.

For all hay diets, we add Vitamin E in a form that is bioavailable. Vitamin E should be mixed into contact with oil, dissolved in oil, or micellized. If you're trying to economize, you might want to do price comparisons of different Vitamin E options instead of Vitamin E oil. Gel caps are the most convenient and widely available in retail stores. You'd feed one 400 IU gel cap/day/mare. It doesn't get easier than that.
Other options:
Uckele Liquid E    highly palatable, you'd need 1/8 teaspoon/day for each mare.
powdered Vitamin E from MyBestHorse.com that you mix in less than a teaspoon of oil at feed time.
Emcelle Tocopherol Vitamin E Liquid,  a micellized Vitamin E, a bit less than 3/4 of a ml for each of your minis with no oil required.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Kandace Krause
 

Hi Sandy,
I have had Mad Barn Amino Trace since just after Christmas.  It was started the wrong way at the vet clinic and it smells awful, even to me.  I had to start all over again and I am finally up to one oz. perbeet pulp feeding(twice daily).  Start slow and see if they like it.  If not Mad Barn told try two to three pellets per day.
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Sandy
 

Thanks Kandace - I saw the slow feeding method (1 pellet per day until you get up to the scoop - LOL - that would take a year).  At this point, they are eating it better - I'm making more changes than I'd like to but I see they are eating it up fairly well now after just a few days so will start increasing (funny because I'm feeding to all four minis - the two without Cushing's are eating it better than the two with .... of course!)

Sandy

On 3/14/2021 2:10 PM, Kandace Krause wrote:
Hi Sandy,
I have had Mad Barn Amino Trace since just after Christmas.  It was started the wrong way at the vet clinic and it smells awful, even to me.  I had to start all over again and I am finally up to one oz. perbeet pulp feeding(twice daily).  Start slow and see if they like it.  If not Mad Barn told try two to three pellets per day.
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062

--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Minis with laminitis/cushings
2021


Cheryl Oickle
 

My horse was very very food motivated and ate everything until I started her on pergolide. I wonder if it alters their taste or increases their smell sensitivity. She has become very picky and smells everything first to decide to take it or not
On the Mad Barn Amino Trace,,,no way! But she will take the Omneity Pellets. They do smell a bit better as well
Good luck

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063